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Old 07-10-03, 12:35 AM   #1
Katt
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The Facts of Life

There is unfortunately, a major flaw in dealing with live animals,
and that is, they are "live", and sometimes, they can "unlive"
themselves. Accidents can happen or Acts of God. Today, we experienced
both the joy of life and the pain of death.

As you know, Vanan and I dabble in jungle corns. Snakes that are
man made hybrids of the california kingsnake and the cornsnake. Both
hardy and wonderful, easy to keep beginner snakes. Well we had a clutch
of these beauties much like last year. Unfortunately, we experienced a
major loss of eggs due to a new incubator and new medium. We're
experiementing with different methods. So, we were pretty down from the
low amount of eggs which survived. Five jungle corn eggs remained from
the original eight.

They pipped this mornin, July 9th. One little bugger looked like he
was ready to come out. So in our excitement we helped him come out of
his egg, after giving him the day to absorb his yolk. He [actually we
don't know the sex] was gorgeous, banded, unlike our blotched jungle
corns of last year, but as he plopped out of his egg into our hands, the
horrible truth came to life.

<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/theherproom/kink.jpg">

What you are seeing is a snake that is literally folded in half. We
were needless to say shocked and extremely saddened by his condition.
He could not unfold himself into a straight line. We laid him into a
container and he writhed about like some sort of Grade B horror flick
monster. Honestly, it was nasty. Poor little guy. We didn't know what
to do, but of course the obvious course was to put him down.

<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/theherproom/kink2.jpg">

You can see how his body actually looped delooped. After we looked
at this poor creatures we decided to cut open the rest of the eggs and
find out if any were like him. The second egg contained another
deformed snake like him.

<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/theherproom/kink3.jpg">
<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/theherproom/kink4.jpg ">

These poor snakes are obviously unable to live. We had to put these
snakes out of their misery. At one point they were both laying in the
tupperware looped delooped one snake's head on the body of the other
unable to move.

Luckily the third snake was perfect and the fourth had only a small
dip in its back. We hope he grows out of it. Needless to say we put
both snakes down and are extremely depressed. So Vanan and I are
sharing a 2L cooler and some ice cream to chill out after these
disturbing events.

The worst part was seeing the two of them looking exactly alike
writhing like earthworms. A snake should never look like that. They had
these beady little black eyes, so trusting, so new to the world and we
had to kill them. Before they got to live, they had to die. There was
simply no way to save these snakes. I choked back the tears as long as
I could, but as we went to the liquor store I couldn't hold back. Vanan
is hanging on stronger than I, but it's so sad and so depressing.

We suspect temperature spikes during incubation caused the bent
backs. As we did observe temperature spikes during incubation.

Anyways, the pain lessens the more you share.

Rest In Peace Jungle #1 and Jungle #2.

~Katt and Vanan
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Old 07-10-03, 12:45 AM   #2
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Oh guys, that is terrible... I'm so sorry for the snakes and you guys...
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Old 07-10-03, 01:07 AM   #3
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Sorry to hear about your snake's thats to bad
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Old 07-10-03, 01:15 AM   #4
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that pretty brutal but when you "bring things to live" you always risk the chance of them dieing it doesnt make it any less sad though
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Old 07-10-03, 04:00 AM   #5
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Hang in there Katt & Vanan.
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Old 07-10-03, 05:50 AM   #6
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Oh man that's too bad. Good post.
Good luck,
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Old 07-10-03, 12:08 PM   #7
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Again I'll say DOH! Gotta hate doing it, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. I had to put down 2 Albino Jungles last year for the same reasons. I have a couple of dead babies to deal with myself later today also, sigh. At least at my end they may serve a better purpose. All my stillborns etc. this year will be used as baby Indigo food. Apparrently they love the scent of the newborn Corns etc. & they will be used to promote feeding responses in the Easterns which might not choose to eat otherwise. Its a cruel world sometimes, but certain things are or just aren't meant to be. Sorry to hear about your loss. Temp spikes are feared/hated at my house also as they caused me grief last year. I had a heater problem & killed 8 newborn Lavender Cal-Kings. The last of the 8 had hatched out into my hands (literally) & 12 hours later I had the last of the 8 die in my hands (literally). It was a major bummer day anyhow, but it was obviously meant to be, sigh. Cheer up Katt things will balance out & you are obviously due for some good fortune. Ride it out & your lucks bound to change. Mark
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Old 07-10-03, 08:11 PM   #8
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So sorry to hear of the loss of these newly hatched - and appreciate you sharing the photos and info on them - especially as temperature spikes may have been the cause. How high did they go to become dangerous? Really is too bad as these were very beautiful babies - hope for better luck with any you have still to hatch,

mary v.
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Old 07-14-03, 10:23 AM   #9
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Mary, the highest they got was 91F. I guess we were lucky that we even got a couple of healhy ones out.
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Old 07-15-03, 12:01 AM   #10
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That is sad man, sorry to hear it.
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Old 07-15-03, 01:17 PM   #11
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Thanks guys for all the kind words. I hope this serves as a lesson to new folkz experimenting with new incubators and mediums, like we are. Watch those temps!
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Old 07-15-03, 05:58 PM   #12
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Really do appreciate you and Vanan sharing your experiences, especially when things go wrong. Not everyone has the courage to do so. It serves as good warning to those of us starting out in the breeding - even with species like corns and kings that are supposed to be easier - still a challenge at times.

mary v.
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Old 07-15-03, 07:34 PM   #13
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i am very sorry to hear your loss. hopefully the ones that where ok will survive. p.s. how did u put them down???
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Old 07-15-03, 08:00 PM   #14
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Im very sorry to hear about your losses. It must have been horrible to have to see them like that and even worse to have to put them down. You did the right thing and I am glad you shared those pictures with us. We as a herping community can learn from eachother mistakes. I hope all goes well with the living hatchlings!

Sean
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