Possible Skin Condition in Hognose Snake

ThunderThor · 10-01-17, 02:09 PM

Hi all, this is my first time posting. I've noticed that my juvenile Hognose has some black around her (*we call her 'her' but have not sexed the snake) mouth.

https://imgur.com/a/zKAjM

It's just at the corners of her mouth as hopefully you can see in the images.

History:

Got the snake about 6 weeks. She has fed well at home. Gave her a week to get settled at home, then was feeding on a 5 day schedule. She ignored mice about a week ago, but when I left a thawed pinkie in her enclosure last Sunday she ate it on her own time. She hasn't been fed since, when inspecting her I decided she probably needs a visit to the vet so I figure it is best to withhold food until the appointment?

She has not shed in this time. When I got her, she did have some discoloration on her head, I assumed it was an abnormal scale that might go away with shed. I don't know if it's related to the mouth? The color is completely different.

I first noticed some darkness around her mouth around 10 days ago. She has eaten since then. I wasn't sure if it was something that had always been there and I overlooked, so I decide to observe her more. Now handling her today the black is still there and possibly has spread a small amount.

I am setting up a vet appointment for this week but am trying to find out what this may be. It doesn't look like scale rot from the pictures I've seen online but have never seen it in person, so am just looking for some outside advice.

Her habitat is a 20gal enclosure with an under tank heat mat (temp on the glass currently 92) coolside temp is currently 78 ambient, and humidity is reading 47. Her bedding is fine wood chips (recommended by pet store) which I plan on switching to shredded aspen. She does dig a lot, maybe she has just bumped her mouth on the bottom of the enclosure and needs a thicker layer of bedding?

Thanks so much!

*sorry I'm still working on getting pics to display in thread, but have provided link*

TRD · 10-01-17, 04:28 PM

Hey,

It's a bit hard to see on the pictures as the area of interest is out of focus on both. It's good you have a vet appointment scheduled, likely it's nothing devastating but need a good look at and possibly some treatment.

Ps. you can post pictures directly on the forum after 5 posts only.

ThunderThor · 10-01-17, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRD

Hey,

It's a bit hard to see on the pictures as the area of interest is out of focus on both. It's good you have a vet appointment scheduled, likely it's nothing devastating but need a good look at and possibly some treatment.

Ps. you can post pictures directly on the forum after 5 posts only.

Thanks for the response and info on the images. Sorry the area of interest is out of focus, she's not one to sit still for photos and it's been hard trying to get good pics of the area.

I'll see what the vet says and will update, and will update if I manage to get better pictures.

The snake is pretty active right now, moving around her enclosure a lot and digging through the substrate. Eyes are clear, lots of tongue flicking. Hopefully it's nothing.

**EL Ziggy** · 10-01-17, 05:44 PM

I agree it's tough to see much in the pics but enough to recommend a trip to the vet.

**Andy_G** · 10-03-17, 07:57 AM

Definitely vet worthy and not normal, also not from nose rub or from bumping the nose as it's occuring in all the wrong places, but it's hard to tell what exactly it could be with those pictures. Please keep us updated once you see the vet.

Also, wood chips are a great choice for hognose and may be even better than the shredded stuff as it would pass through the digestive tract easier if consumed. Any particular reason why you would want to switch?

Scubadiver59 · 10-03-17, 12:49 PM

I had a similar situation with my False Water Cobra...it had a bit of black around the right side of the mouth; however, with the next shed, it was gone. It might be as simple as that, the shed, or it might not, but as they say, "it's always better err on the side of caution."

ThunderThor · 10-03-17, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Definitely vet worthy and not normal, also not from nose rub or from bumping the nose as it's occuring in all the wrong places, but it's hard to tell what exactly it could be with those pictures. Please keep us updated once you see the vet.

Also, wood chips are a great choice for hognose and may be even better than the shredded stuff as it would pass through the digestive tract easier if consumed. Any particular reason why you would want to switch?

Back from the Vet. They said it was a case of "superficial mouth rot." The gums were a little agitated, but the stomatitis is just on the lips and not inside the mouth.

The Vet literally used a credit card to scrap the snake's mouth and remove the visible blackness and gave us MaxiGuard Oral Cleansing Gel with instructions to apply to the lips once every 24 hours.

Does this sound like any experience anyone here has had? My wife took the snake in and took a picture afterwards and the black was completely gone. Here at home when I checked on the snake, there was a small amount of the black returned - so we scraped it off like the vet did.

He advised we get rid of the substrate for now and use paper towels to keep it sanitary. I removed everything from the habitat, cleaned the tank, cleaned all the hides, and cleaned the water dish.

The snake is now back in the hab. Vet advised try to feed since she has been off food for awhile (her feeding schedule was disrupted by her vet visit) so I've offered a pinkie and left it in her hab.

As for changing the substrate, other than the shop I got the snake from, most people weren't speaking too highly of the wood chips. Some said dust (which I didn't notice) and some said they may hold extra moisture. My corn uses shredded aspen and I figured the hognose might like to make burrows as well.

Thanks for any insight, I've only been keeping snakes for around a year and this is my first experience having to take one to a vet.

So any insight you have into this treatment process would be appreciated. Does this sound like proper treatment? Just MaxiGuard?

The Vet didn't mention the stuff coming back, so if it does come back in the future should we continue scraping it or just apply the gel?

Thanks again and let me know if I can clarify anything.

Herpin' Man · 10-04-17, 07:29 AM

Honestly, it just looks like a dirty mouth to me. I've seen it on my own snakes many times.
I know my response is late, but I'm a bit skeptical of the "superficial mouth rot" diagnosis.
Well, I hope you post again if this problem worsens or reoccurs.

**Andy_G** · 10-04-17, 07:45 AM

Sounds right to me. I would say if it comes back and it is superficial like that again, repeat the procedure, and of course in the meanwhile keep an eye on it until it's fully healed.

Herpin Man, I would agree if the snake was kept on a dark substrate such as coco husk because the colour would match, but not if it's on wood chips.

Herpin' Man · 10-05-17, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Herpin Man, I would agree if the snake was kept on a dark substrate such as coco husk because the colour would match, but not if it's on wood chips.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of it possibly being snake poop. Hognose like to dig in everything, you know.

**Andy_G** · 10-05-17, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herpin' Man

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of it possibly being snake poop. Hognose like to dig in everything, you know.

Ah. This is true!

ThunderThor · 10-06-17, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herpin' Man

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of it possibly being snake poop. Hognose like to dig in everything, you know.

She did slither over her own poop the other day in the 40 seconds it took me to notice the poop, get a paper towel, and come back.

She seems to be responding well to the treatment. Minor recurrence of bacteria that we scraped off, applying gel on schedule, today no recurrence. Supposed to continue treatment for a total of 10 days.

Only thing I'm worried about now is her feeding. Today is day 13 since she last took a pinkie. I've just been offering by putting them in her enclosure. There is one in there now. The vet appointment disrupted her feeding schedule as I didn't want to give her a mouse before taking her for the exam for fear of having her regurgitate. Previously I had several successful feedings on a 5-7 day schedule.

At the pet store they fed her by moving her from her enclosure to a paper bag with a pinkie in it and leaving here there. Should I try that if she doesn't take this mouse?

Psyrocke · 10-06-17, 04:18 AM

I wouldn't be too worried. Some snakes just go off food for a while, and with having to be treated it is likely she is stressed a little bit, since she doesn't know its good for her.