Nose Rubbing

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Minkness

No open sore or cuts from what I can see. Just a bump. And I'm not sure what you mean about AC in the room. It's got a vent and is connected to central heat/air, which the room has to have if I am to be able to regulate temps at all. Otherwise the heat would sky rocket.

Ah. I was envisioning an A/C unit. Didn't realize you had central.

Originally Posted by Minkness

Ok, improved her enclosure a bit. More hiding places, that are also smaller than the log she had, and 2 climbing things. I also sealed the screen with tape but secured the edges with glue so no corners can come loose!

How long does it usually take to see improvement of the bump once they have stopped rubbing?

Not sure how bad her rub was compared to your boa's, but it took my retic 4 or 5 shed cycles before her nose rub went away. At one point, a portion of it fell off and scabbed over, but now you can't tell she ever rubbed her nose. She didn't initially break the skin.

Originally Posted by Andy_G

I respectfully disagree with getting the biggest tub possible and cluttering it and i'll explain why. Baby boas will do better in a smaller tub, and putting a new one such as that will encourage rubbing, not discourage it. I see no point in creating more to clean and therefore more time bothering the baby doing so. I always kept littermates together in small groups on moist paper towel in shoe box size bins until their first shed when I would seperate them for feeding and they'd get their own so I am not confident that is a significant stressor... A very active baby boa is usually a stressed one I have found, and a baby's very arboreal nature (although boas are semi-arboreal, babies are even more so) is in order to feel more secure while exposed. The fact that boas have a slower metabolism and are purely ambush predators by nature would indicate that they would prefer to preserve energy. I also think thag cooler air coming from an A/C would "slow down" the boa and make it more sluggish, not the other way around. Excessive heat as I mentioned would more likely be a stressor. You mentioned mites and they will trigger rubbing BIG TIME.

You know what you're doing as far as new acquisitions go Logan, just see if you can avoid using any screen for now and monitor the bumps for changes and do the usual leave alone and feed after a week, etc. Sometimes these small abcesses are benign and take care of themselves but monitor it.

I haven't found that to be true, but I also haven't ever run across a rubber before. I offer all my snakes more room than the bare minimum, and they seem to benefit from it. When I say a snake is active, I don't mean it's excessively active. I mean it's regularly coming out at the time appropriate for its species and cruising around, which is not indicative of stress. A snake that sits in one spot, never once moving, even during the time of day its species is normally active, is just as stressed or unhealthy as one that is excessively active.

For a rubber maybe my info is off, but I generally put all my babies in as large of clear tubs as I can find that have latches, and I've never had a problem. My anery motley did take some adjustment after being a blacked-out rack system, having been nippy but after a couple weeks he's calmed right down. He's got lots of cover, though.

I wouldn't say the A/C affects their metabolisms, just that cold air flowing over them doesn't really feel all that nice. Like putting our hands in lukewarm water after playing in the snow all day. When they cool off, they'll stop moving, but I've found initially it actually causes them to become frantic.

[macandchz]

not too long ago someone posted a picture of a snake with a severe case of nose rubbing. it left a pretty big scab. i hope you don't get to that point. so glad everyone talked about A/C. didn't know it would affect snakes that much. i keep ours off in mac's room and now i'm glad i do.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I haven't found that to be true, but I also haven't ever run across a rubber before. I offer all my snakes more room than the bare minimum, and they seem to benefit from it. When I say a snake is active, I don't mean it's excessively active. I mean it's regularly coming out at the time appropriate for its species and cruising around, which is not indicative of stress. A snake that sits in one spot, never once moving, even during the time of day its species is normally active, is just as stressed or unhealthy as one that is excessively active.

For a rubber maybe my info is off, but I generally put all my babies in as large of clear tubs as I can find that have latches, and I've never had a problem. My anery motley did take some adjustment after being a blacked-out rack system, having been nippy but after a couple weeks he's calmed right down. He's got lots of cover, though.

I wouldn't say the A/C affects their metabolisms, just that cold air flowing over them doesn't really feel all that nice. Like putting our hands in lukewarm water after playing in the snow all day. When they cool off, they'll stop moving, but I've found initially it actually causes them to become frantic.

I see what you mean and appreciate where you're coming from, and I hope saying this doesn't bother you, but your sample size is not that large as far as these observations go, BSG. Normal activity is healthy of course, but that's not what is happening here. This boa is not rubbing due to lack of space and neonates do not normally do so, I say that with complete confidence. Saying that, the smaller the cage, the easier it is to heat...and a baby boa in a cage without escape from heat will most definitely rub and for beginner keepers (and sometimes even careless breeders!) it's a common mistake to run heat pads without control. Too much heat, insecurity, and mites are the most common causes of nose rub with neonate boas.

For an animal who is nose rubbing and already stressed...using a larger cage with more things to clean off and maintain will increase the amount of contact and bothering you have to do for simple upkeep. Bare minimums with simple setups in this case would be essential to reduce interaction as much as possible until the snake is settled in and the rubbing ceases.

Since it's central A/C and not a unit blowing a breeze it won't be an issue...but out of the few hundred boa babies I produced I have never seen one react too much to a cool breeze whatsoever...but there admittedly weren't many opportunities for me to observe this aside from perhaps going from the main floor to the basement when handling (82 ambient snake room, 70ish degree basement). We wouldn't want a cool breeze in the first place though, you're right there.

Logan, the bump could disappear rather quickly or it may take a while. Usually with younger, rapidly growing animals it will clear up faster but it's pretty variable. I'm not able to coach you as to how you should modify the screen top simply because I don't use them and haven't done it. Some other suggestions have been made that may work, though. My biggest thing is that you make totally sure the mites are 100% gone.

[Minkness]

Thanks Andy!

The glue didn't hold so I will have to revisit how to protect her from the screen. However, from my observations so far, she has settled down ALOT and already has her favorite hide and her favorite perch. I only saw her do a few light 'bumps' that told her, yup...there's something there! Lol. Not witnessing any pushing or rubbing though, so it may be like Andy said and the hatchling rack was too warm.

Still working on the mites. I am pretty agressive with them and rescued a BP that was totally covered and had her cleared up 100% with just one shed. Hopefully the same goes this time. Everyone is on paper towels with clear, plastic water dishes.

She isn't soaking at all, and neither is anyone else, so I'm thinking they are already getting under control. =)

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

I see what you mean and appreciate where you're coming from, and I hope saying this doesn't bother you, but your sample size is not that large as far as these observations go, BSG. Normal activity is healthy of course, but that's not what is happening here. This boa is not rubbing due to lack of space and neonates do not normally do so, I say that with complete confidence. Saying that, the smaller the cage, the easier it is to heat...and a baby boa in a cage without escape from heat will most definitely rub and for beginner keepers (and sometimes even careless breeders!) it's a common mistake to run heat pads without control. Too much heat, insecurity, and mites are the most common causes of nose rub with neonate boas.

For an animal who is nose rubbing and already stressed...using a larger cage with more things to clean off and maintain will increase the amount of contact and bothering you have to do for simple upkeep. Bare minimums with simple setups in this case would be essential to reduce interaction as much as possible until the snake is settled in and the rubbing ceases.

Since it's central A/C and not a unit blowing a breeze it won't be an issue...but out of the few hundred boa babies I produced I have never seen one react too much to a cool breeze whatsoever...but there admittedly weren't many opportunities for me to observe this aside from perhaps going from the main floor to the basement when handling (82 ambient snake room, 70ish degree basement). We wouldn't want a cool breeze in the first place though, you're right there.

Logan, the bump could disappear rather quickly or it may take a while. Usually with younger, rapidly growing animals it will clear up faster but it's pretty variable. I'm not able to coach you as to how you should modify the screen top simply because I don't use them and haven't done it. Some other suggestions have been made that may work, though. My biggest thing is that you make totally sure the mites are 100% gone.

The rubbing also seems to have been from conditions from before he got her, so as long as she isn't rubbing now, whatever is working seems good. From the pics he posted, his tank looks roughly the same size as the tubs I use for my babies (with some rearranging of dimensions probably).

Yeah, central A/C is definitely different from a unit. There's a more even coolness if that makes sense, since it's not a strong blast of air pushing the cold around.

Unfortunately, I have no clue how else to modify it either. I only have three enclosures with screen, and I've never had a rubber, so I haven't had to modify them.

Originally Posted by Minkness

Still working on the mites. I am pretty agressive with them and rescued a BP that was totally covered and had her cleared up 100% with just one shed. Hopefully the same goes this time. Everyone is on paper towels with clear, plastic water dishes.

She isn't soaking at all, and neither is anyone else, so I'm thinking they are already getting under control. =)

That's good to hear! Hopefully it stays that way. Sounds like she's doing well in your care if the rubbing has stopped.