Lookin for some learnin.

[albertagirl]

EL Z - thanks! I have many more questions about bulls, but I will read up and see what I can find. I'm sure my questions aren't new. That snake is enormous! She would be the maximum size I think I'd be prepared to house/feed/handle. Is that a typical size or is she unusually large?

Any other suggestions from anyone for species larger than a corn snake, but no larger than that amazing bull?

[toddnbecka]

Back when I was researching various snakes before getting back into keeping them I ran across the Dominican red mountain boas. Not too common (yet anyway) but there are usually some available. Body type and overall size is similar to a carpet python, but their disposition is very docile regardless of size or age. I now have 10, started with 2 pairs of yearlings (now over 2 years old) then ran across some sub adults last year that are now breeding size. None of them have ever bitten or struck, worst any have ever done is musk, and even that's not a common occurence. They don't need as high temps as carpet pythons, males max out around 6-7', females a little larger but not more than 9'. Males are more slender, though even the females aren't as bulky as my carpet pythons in general.
A couple recent pickups were a baby bull snake and a Dumeril's boa. The bull snake has proven to be the most handleable of my collection. He's always willing to be picked up, never flighty, has buzzed his tail briefly a couple times though. Bull snakes are known for hissing and bluffing, not biting, but I've never heard any noise from mine yet.
The Dumeril's boa is a sweetheart too, but she will get a bit bulkier than the bull snake.
My two carpet pythons are easy to handle, the first one was as mellow as a red tail boa from the start. The newer IJ was quite defensive at first, struck at anything that moved, but settled down considerably and now she's fine.

[albertagirl]

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

Back when I was researching various snakes before getting back into keeping them I ran across the Dominican red mountain boas. Not too common (yet anyway) but there are usually some available. Body type and overall size is similar to a carpet python, but their disposition is very docile regardless of size or age. I now have 10, started with 2 pairs of yearlings (now over 2 years old) then ran across some sub adults last year that are now breeding size. None of them have ever bitten or struck, worst any have ever done is musk, and even that's not a common occurence. They don't need as high temps as carpet pythons, males max out around 6-7', females a little larger but not more than 9'. Males are more slender, though even the females aren't as bulky as my carpet pythons in general.

Holy crap. I just looked these up and... I'm speechless... just wow. Thank you for introducing me to these! The chances of me finding one around here anytime soon are not great I suspect, but I will look into their care and husbandry just in case I run across one at the upcoming shows.

[toddnbecka]

I've seen one person selling babies at a couple shows, but your best bet is to find a breeder. Ironically, I was originally going to get a pair of yearlings from Tom Crutchfield, but he was in Canada when I contacted him. Turned out he had sold the yearlings but had babies available for the same price. Then I found a couple other people with yearling available, and got some from them. I got my first pair of yearlings from Paul Bodnar, he has a good number of breeding adults. No clue about shipping to Canada, but it should be workable on way or another. They turn up occasionally on the Kingsnake and Fauna classified forums. Alternatively, someone at a show may be able to locate one for you if you ask around enough, or try posting "wanted" ads on a couple of the classified forums.
Not all of them are the red phase, but they all have the same general disposition IME. Here's one of my larger females:


Young adult male, bred him this year. He has a white belly, unlike my red phase juvies, I'm wondering if he may turn out to be a calico as time goes by:


This is one of the 2+ year old juvies:


Their husbandry is pretty simple, I keep the larger ones in 4x2x2 plywood enclosures and 75 gallon tanks. Heat mat for belly heat satisfies they pretty well, though I do have RHP's for the breeding females to keep the ambient temps warmer. Cypress mulch to help maintain humidity, and they do like a large water bowl for soaking. One thing to be aware of with babies though, some will take mice and some will only start feeding on anoles, and have to be switched over. Best to get one that's feeding on mice (or rat pinks) to begin with

[albertagirl]

Thanks toddnbecka. They are soooo pretty! From what I've been able to find, they seem a little outside my current price range, but in future that may change. Also, maintaining a high humidity is a challenge I don't feel confident about. It's why I crossed rainbow boas off the list. I can't seem to find a care sheet for these guys that includes any info about what kind of humidity they like. What do you keep them at?
I try to keep my little tricolor hog at above 60% and so far I suck at it. He basically lives in his humid hide. From what I can find on them (they are another species with not a whole lot of info out there) they do okay with less when they're older, so at least I don't have to do this forever. Ambient humidity drops to around 10% for a lot of the year around here.

[pet_snake_78]

Cypress mulch should help with humidity. I actually have a hard time keeping humidity down in my tubs. Use cypress and a largish water bowl, use heat tape instead of lights, use tubs instead of enclosures, you'll be up to your ears in humidity lol but obviously not for arboreal species that way.

[albertagirl]

My hog probably could go into a tub without making much difference. I've had him since the beginning of January and I think I've seen him a total of twice, other than taking him out to feed/clean. I call his cage my "tank of dirt" because you'd never know I have a snake in there. I literally forget that I have him sometimes, so a display cage is pointless. I might try a tub for him.

[toddnbecka]

They don't need high humidity like rainbows, 60% is plenty. I use cypress mulch for substrate and pegboard for tank lids. I use foam board (peel off the paper on both sides) to cover part of the screen or pegboard tank tops to help maintain humidity in my aquarium setups. They do like to soak in the water bowls when they're getting close to shedding. Ceramic caves (actually medium and large cichlid stones) sitting on a tray of sphagnum moss for humid hides works well for the younger ones, the adults don't seem to worry about it as much. I don't cover their tops, the cypress seems to work fine for them. I've seen babies going for $200-250, but they'll come down in price as time goes on and they're bred in larger numbers. A few years ago I was breeding super red bristlenose pleco's, and breeding size adults were selling for $100 each, babies were around $20 each. Now they've become relatively easy to find, and the going price is much lower, sort of like ball pythons, lol.
For low humidity requirements a bull or gopher snake is tough to beat, though my thayeri kings seem to do just fine w/out humid hides or cypress mulch. My little bull snake is growing like a weed in a garden, eats like a python but has a faster metabolism, lol. I keep them and the Tangerine Hondo on aspen with ambient humidity around 30-40% and they all shed cleanly. If you use clear plastic tubs you can drill ventilation holes in the sides rather than the top to help maintain humidity too. My Jap rat snakes are in large Sterilite tubs, and though not quite a display setup they're still clearly visible. Much easier to move around for cleaning and such as well.
Carpet pythons are relatively inexpensive and pretty hardy as well, but they do grow to a fair size and like it warmer than the colubrids. My jungle/cross is about 1.5 years old, just shed today, and the shed is about 6' long. I'm sure it stretched a bit though. The smaller IJ also shed today, she's a year younger and much smaller, not even half that size. I paid around $75 each for them at reptile shows. Just a couple of random hatchlings (like normal BP's or BCI's) but they're great pets.

[kovacs01]

Love that little tricolor! Those are one of my all time favorite colubrids!

Anyway, if you are looking to branch out, DRMBs are indeed awesome. The other one that should be on your list is the candoia genus (commonly called Solomon Island or Isabel Island ground boas). They are very docile, max out at around 6 feet, and come in a wide variety of colors. Just make sure you get one that is CBB. The wild caught ones are finicky eaters from what I have seen, but not so with ones that have been raised to eat rodents.

[albertagirl]

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

They don't need high humidity like rainbows, 60% is plenty. I use cypress mulch for substrate and pegboard for tank lids. I use foam board (peel off the paper on both sides) to cover part of the screen or pegboard tank tops to help maintain humidity in my aquarium setups. They do like to soak in the water bowls when they're getting close to shedding. Ceramic caves (actually medium and large cichlid stones) sitting on a tray of sphagnum moss for humid hides works well for the younger ones, the adults don't seem to worry about it as much. I don't cover their tops, the cypress seems to work fine for them. I've seen babies going for $200-250, but they'll come down in price as time goes on and they're bred in larger numbers. A few years ago I was breeding super red bristlenose pleco's, and breeding size adults were selling for $100 each, babies were around $20 each. Now they've become relatively easy to find, and the going price is much lower, sort of like ball pythons, lol.
For low humidity requirements a bull or gopher snake is tough to beat, though my thayeri kings seem to do just fine w/out humid hides or cypress mulch. My little bull snake is growing like a weed in a garden, eats like a python but has a faster metabolism, lol. I keep them and the Tangerine Hondo on aspen with ambient humidity around 30-40% and they all shed cleanly. If you use clear plastic tubs you can drill ventilation holes in the sides rather than the top to help maintain humidity too. My Jap rat snakes are in large Sterilite tubs, and though not quite a display setup they're still clearly visible. Much easier to move around for cleaning and such as well.
Carpet pythons are relatively inexpensive and pretty hardy as well, but they do grow to a fair size and like it warmer than the colubrids. My jungle/cross is about 1.5 years old, just shed today, and the shed is about 6' long. I'm sure it stretched a bit though. The smaller IJ also shed today, she's a year younger and much smaller, not even half that size. I paid around $75 each for them at reptile shows. Just a couple of random hatchlings (like normal BP's or BCI's) but they're great pets.

You make it sound easy! 60% humidity is still a bit hard to maintain in the winter, but I'm going to try some of the tips you guys are giving me here and see how I do. $250 is not so bad, I thought I saw some prices like $800... factor in shipping and there's no way. I'll keep my eyes open for these guys, they look like the perfect size! If I can get a bead on someone who breeds them in Canada, they might be in my future. Thank you so much for the information about these guys, there isn't much out there.

Originally Posted by kovacs01

Love that little tricolor! Those are one of my all time favorite colubrids!

Anyway, if you are looking to branch out, DRMBs are indeed awesome. The other one that should be on your list is the candoia genus (commonly called Solomon Island or Isabel Island ground boas). They are very docile, max out at around 6 feet, and come in a wide variety of colors. Just make sure you get one that is CBB. The wild caught ones are finicky eaters from what I have seen, but not so with ones that have been raised to eat rodents.

Thank you, he's so freaking cute. I wasn't really into the tri's until I held one in person and then I couldn't live without one. They're pretty rare around here, but there are two or three breeders with them now, and they seem to have multiple clutches per year, so I think there will be a lot more of them around soon. I just wish I saw him more.

I have looked at candoia, and I liked the ground boas, but the ones around here are TINY! Nowhere near 6 feet. I still have my eyes on them they are so cool looking, but I really do want something a little bit more substantial.
These are the size of their mature adult females of the only breeders who have them that I've found in Canada. The boys are even smaller.

mature girl.jpg

[shawkz0rz]

How long did it take before the moderators accepted your post ? I would like to join in discussions and introduce myself and ask questions but alas im stuck in the not approved yet limbo

[albertagirl]

Originally Posted by shawkz0rz

How long did it take before the moderators accepted your post ? I would like to join in discussions and introduce myself and ask questions but alas im stuck in the not approved yet limbo

I think about a day and a half? Long enough for me to get impatient, but quick enough for me to laugh at my impatience afterwards.

[albertagirl]

Well, I found the only breeder in Canada who has DRMB. They are *WELL* outside my price range. Oh well, maybe in a few years. LOL

I have also discovered that ALL gopher and bull snakes are illegal here.
So much for that idea. Looks like carpet pythons might be happening this year after all.

[EL Ziggy]

Wow, pits are illegal there. That slurps . A carpet is still an excellent choice.

[kovacs01]

Originally Posted by albertagirl

I have also discovered that ALL gopher and bull snakes are illegal here.

What about pine snakes?