Keep your cats indoors.

[eminart]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

I would never keep a cat indoors. They are not indoor creatures. Sorry, just the way I feel. And no, my cats do not just see me as a source of food either.

There was an interesting documentary on the life of cats here I the uk and they tracked every cat in a small village and the amount of wildlife kills was way below what anyone thought it would be. Will try and find a link. Not saying cats don't kill wildlife- they do but not nearly to the level previously thought.

But no, imo cat owners who let their cats out are not irresponsible. Those that keep them cooped up indoors are...

I'm going to guess that the documentary you watched hardly did the research that goes into real science. Keeping cats outdoors is ecologically irresponsible.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...irds-each-year

[LespaceSerpent]

I don't see a problem with a well-cared-for cat being both indoor and outdoor. As lot as the cat is properly cared for, spayed/neutered, and vaccinated. Our cats have very rarely brought anything to our door and it was never birds only voles that had been burrowing in our yard. They know they can come in the house whenever they would like.

Now stray cats that just wander around breeding, spreading disease do need to be taken care of but I don't believe in going through neighborhoods euthanizing cats for being outside. Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.

[Tiny Boidae]

The problem with a lot of outdoor cats is that they might be well cared for and fed, but instinct still tells them to kill. So they'll kill for the sport of it and that hurts a lot of species. Cats are an invasive species so a lot of birds and small animals aren't evolved to deal with this trophy hunter, so that puts them at an unfair advantage. And in a lot of urban areas, cats don't have anything to fear except cars, so feral cats are able to breed profusely especially since people will often leave kitty food out for strays, which tips the balance even more since natural selection isn't able to weed out as many of the cats.

I agree that unwanted animals should be euthanized if not adopted within a certain amount of time, and feral cats should just be flat-out euthanized unless they're below a certain age. We have too many unwanted animals, and as you said animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed. Why is it okay for them to kill billions of birds and not okay to euthanize these animals? I say that the government needs to step up and put some funding towards environmental causes for a change and stop building shiny new tanks.

[dannybgoode]

Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.

The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.

I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.

I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

A cat outdoors is open to being poisoned, being run over, being eaten by predators, being open to communicable diseases, parasites, torture by sadistic kids/adults, etc.

Your personal belief about the figures and their lack of accuracy doesn't disprove or discredit the fact that you are irresponsibly exposing your pet to the above risks for absolutely no good reason in my opinion...but then again...it is your pet after all.

I must ask...do you feed all of your collection live prey?

[RAD House]

A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.

[dannybgoode]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Your personal belief about the figures and their lack of accuracy doesn't disprove or discredit the fact that you are irresponsibly exposing your pet to the above risks for absolutely no good reason in my opinion...but then again...it is your pet after all.

I must ask...do you feed all of your collection live prey?

No. A) there is no need as my boa is happy on f/t and B) even if I wanted to it's actually against the law here in the UK to feed live rodents.

Again, I don't know if it's a locality thing but the vast majority of cats are let out as and when they want.

[dannybgoode]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.

But the fact remains that of cats killed at the rate some studies suggest There simply wouldn't be any birds left where there is a significant population of domestic cats.

Based on the numbers I've seen cats in the uk alone would be killing some 3bn + animals pet year which would be an unsustainable number. They simply aren't killing that many animals.

Anyway as I said earlier it's a bit pointless me getting involved in this as I have my views and others theirs and we ain't never going to agree...

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

No. A) there is no need as my boa is happy on f/t and B) even if I wanted to it's actually against the law here in the UK to feed live

I wasn't aware of that, good to know. I would consider feeding snakes live prey even if they readily took f/t being comparable (as far as unnecessary exposure to possible harm) to having a cat who you let outside all the time while they may very well be happy inside...so I really was curious to see if your reasoning carried over to our hobby as well.

[dannybgoode]

Over the past 40 years (i.e since I was born) I have owned or lived with 13 cats. Only 2 have never returned home due to potential accidents. However I'm pretty sure one of them just got fed up and moved in with someone else.

The dangers of them being allowed out doors are in my opinion overstated. As I say in the UK at least it is very unusual to keep a cat as a house cat and again I very rarely hear of cat owing friends losing theirs also.

Yes it happens but then people lose the odd reptile to accidents however caused, vivs being left open etc.

[Lefitte]

Maybe it's a little different in the UK then. I personally know of at least 3 cats who have been lost due to coyotes. I have seen many dead cats run over by cars in the road. I have personally stopped children from beating a stray with a stick when I was little. Maybe cats aren't in as much danger where you live, but there's no denying it where I live. There are several studies currently going on about how much cats roam and how much they actually kill, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe in a few years we'll have some better information about that.

[LespaceSerpent]

I guess the part that bothers me about this thread is saying that we are irresponsible in the way we keep our pets. The only time I hear about lost cats in my area is when they were indoor cats that got out rather than outdoor cats gone missing. I love my pets very much and we do take care of them.

[dannybgoode]

Good point re predators. In the UK cats don't really have any natural predators-the odd fox may give it a go but unless the cat was very young or sick I wouldn't rate it's chances...

[sam]

Originally Posted by LespaceSerpent

Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.

I believe this statement is fundamentally wrong regarding this argument. No offence.

Every ecosystem has a very fine balance, my 9 year old sister pulled the same argument as you did saying "oh, it's natural for him to kill things, its the circle of life." Cats are not native, they disrupt the natural balance of the ecosystem, same with dogs.

Saying animals kill other animals is only relevant to the ecosystem that was crafted for those very specific plants, insects and animals that are designed for that environment. When you introduce an alien species to an environment, it can cause massive damage to the ecosystem and tip the fine balance that has been formed over millions of years.

It may be different in the USA where foreign animals are introduced willy-nilly but here is Aus we've had severe problems with introduced species. The cane toad, rabbits, honey bees, wasps, foxes. Many native species have gone extinct.

This all comes down to humans in general, we're a pretty big failure in the long run. The planet has thrived for billions of years, and after a mere thousand after humans started booming, the planet has gone to sh*t.

In the end it's not the cats fault, it can't help it's tendencies to be a nuisance. It's the owners fault.

[RAD House]

Well said Sam. Lespace you have two choices. One is you can be upset and ignore the facts, or two you can make a change and positively affect the world you live in.