Morph/species related illness?

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

My 18 years of experience with 100's of spiders conflict with the 4 animals in the "experienced" side.

4 animals makes me question if there were other issues. They are ball pythons afterall.

Sorry Aaron but, there have been thousands and thousands (just look on any forum anywhere) of spider balls and Jags that have issues and it's not an issue of only 4 animals. Every single spider ball (and Jag) I've EVER had in my hands has had some sort of neurological issue. Whether it be small or large...they ALL have it.

Us 2 are not the only ones who have had severe cases of animals not being able to eat because it was so messed up. The internet forums are riddled with such information.

And, I've experienced it way more than with 4 animals.

Fact, there are cases in which the animal is so messed up they can't eat. It might not be all that common but, it's more common than you seem to have experience with...as I know plenty of people who have dealt with it.

D

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Derek Roddy

Sorry Aaron but, there have been thousands and thousands (just look on any forum anywhere) of spider balls and Jags that have issues and it's not an issue of only 4 animals. Every single spider ball (and Jag) I've EVER had in my hands has had some sort of neurological issue. Whether it be small or large...they ALL have it.

Us 2 are not the only ones who have had severe cases of animals not being able to eat because it was so messed up. The internet forums are riddled with such information.

And, I've experienced it way more than with 4 animals.

Fact, there are cases in which the animal is so messed up they can't eat. It might not be all that common but, it's more common than you seem to have experience with...as I know plenty of people who have dealt with it.

D

Derek I apologize that my opinion wasn't very clear. I know all about the wobble and agree that every spider morph has it on some level.

My experience is completely different than yours in regards to how it affects a snake eating. Since we learned in this thread that that is enough to deem something 'fact' it means I have trouble believing this.

Here's why, I constantly get questions about snakes not eating. Mostly ball pythons, and I've found that most people blame the snake for bad eating habits. Whereas, when after asking a lot of questions, it comes out that it's usually a keeper error (accident or otherwise). So I really am skeptical when people simply blame the wobble on bad feeding snakes.

As I've stated earlier, in breeding snakes, there are some babies that just never eat on their own without any wobble. It's part and parcel with mother nature so I don't quite see how wobble gets blamed for every single issue.

[RAD House]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

That's a good point. Morphs are a "break" in the gene. Technically they're like a deformity. So when you breed for deformities there are consequences. Its important to remember that all of the issues in any species that are the result of selective morph breeding are on a spectrum. Some mild some severe.

Saying that, carpets, boas, some lizards, can all have issues. The important thing is to know what you're getting yourself into whether you're breeding or purchasing.

This is not how genetics works. Not all genetic variation can be considered a deformity. Nature breeds for genetic variation all the time, it is called natural selection. Breeding for mutations does not necessarily need to have negative consequences, but ignoring problem genes in a line breeding situation certainly will.

Aaron, as Derek said I think reading through many sources it seems that theses are known issues with spider morphs with in the industry. It is important that future breeders understand all possible risks. If ball pythons are notoriously sensitive feeders than how can you argue that a neurological condition will have no effect on the snake eating? In my opinion breeding for a snake that has any outwardly visible Neurological issue is irresponsible. Also in this case the word fact is relative as we not talking about something that has shown to be true through decades of scientific study, but through the agreement of experienced individuals.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

This is not how genetics works. Not all genetic variation can be considered a deformity. Nature breeds for genetic variation all the time, it is called natural selection. Breeding for mutations does not necessarily need to have negative consequences, but ignoring problem genes in a line breeding situation certainly will.

Aaron, as Derek said I think reading through many sources it seems that theses are known issues with spider morphs with in the industry. It is important that future breeders understand all possible risks. If ball pythons are notoriously sensitive feeders than how can you argue that a neurological condition will have no effect on the snake eating? In my opinion breeding for a snake that has any outwardly visible Neurological issue is irresponsible. Also in this case the word fact is relative as we not talking about something that has shown to be true through decades of scientific study, but through the agreement of experienced individuals.

You're right. That's why I said spectrum. Some have no issues and some do. Pinstripes dont. Spiders do.

[DDW]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The ball python morphs weren't "bred for". Morphs start by finding them in the wild then brought into captivity. Spiders, cinnamons, caramels, deserts etc. All were found so it wasn't due to inbreeding that cause any associated "defect".

Ball pythons just have more morphs than most species.

Well, you learn more everyday XD I just assumed (which I guess was a mistake XD)

[DDW]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

Fish are even worse then snakes, inbred to have such flashy colours and many have very poor immune systems as a result. Some are even physical deformities bred on purpose to create these 'fish'.

Like the blood parrot fish, deformed mouth so they can't close it completely some have worse than others but I feel bad for it when I see them eat, but they are extremely territorial. (I have one, my sister too)

[trailblazer295]

Originally Posted by DDW

Like the blood parrot fish, deformed mouth so they can't close it completely some have worse than others but I feel bad for it when I see them eat, but they are extremely territorial. (I have one, my sister too)

Exactly, I personally never saw the appeal of them. Electric blue rams are bred for the vibrant blue but inbred and poor health. Most of the dwarf gourami generally just up and die.

[DDW]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

Exactly, I personally never saw the appeal of them. Electric blue rams are bred for the vibrant blue but inbred and poor health. Most of the dwarf gourami generally just up and die.

My parents got it and did research after, I, for one, like fish that are natural occurring or such. I have always thought rope fish were cool but my mom says it's too much like a snake(signaling my love of serpentine things before realizing it lol), and I was surprised how much like a snake they are once I looked more into them (you have to have a secure lid to prevent escape and they can stay alive without water for a surprising amount of time)

[trailblazer295]

Originally Posted by DDW

My parents got it and did research after, I, for one, like fish that are natural occurring or such. I have always thought rope fish were cool but my mom says it's too much like a snake(signaling my love of serpentine things before realizing it lol), and I was surprised how much like a snake they are once I looked more into them (you have to have a secure lid to prevent escape and they can stay alive without water for a surprising amount of time)

I bought khuli loaches for the same reason. Liked them for years like mini sea snakes. The writing was on the wall just didn't see it.

[DDW]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

I bought khuli loaches for the same reason. Liked them for years like mini sea snakes. The writing was on the wall just didn't see it.

I didn't know what those where till now, just Google searched imaged, I don't know whether I like these whiskers or not lol but they are pretty one time I got a dragon fish that I named Twisler like the candy, I loved that thing until the red eared slider striped the top spine off (it survived, I sent it to my sisters where there was another dragon fish. The top spine grew back and lived it's life there until both dragon fish died) I want another dragonfish, imagine that thing going in and out of a scull or something lol they deserve the name dragonXD