Morph/species related illness? - Page 3

**lady_bug87** · 06-09-15, 07:06 AM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

Of course it is. Don't worry the next paragraph isnt for you. It's for general information. Saying that, if your spiders are thusly affected maybe you should (ethically) stop making them.

In MY opinion. The problems associated with wobbles and such get worse when you're not cross breeding. The wobble will always be there but if you aren't adding any new blood its going to get worse. It's all about genetic variability. Really bad wobbles and things like pied infertility (desert is completely different) can 'be alleviated by adding to the "gene pool"

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-15, 07:10 AM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

If you have pics or videos I'd like to see them. How many snakes in total? How large of a group did they come from?

I've seen hundreds of spiders and haven't seen this issue or ever asked about it by someone. I have a very wobbly one here and she does just fine with similar "control" issues.

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-15, 07:14 AM

[QUOTE=lady_bug87;964743]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Of course it is. Don't worry the next paragraph isnt for you. It's for general information. Saying that, if your spiders are thusly affected maybe you should (ethically) stop making them.

In MY opinion. The problems associated with wobbles and such get worse when you're not cross breeding. The wobble will always be there but if you aren't adding any new blood its going to get worse. It's all about genetic variability. Really bad wobbles and things like pied infertility (desert is completely different) can 'be alleviated by adding to the "gene pool"

Actually a very good point.

As everyone selectively breeds for blushing, darker blacks, lighter colours, less or more pattern we also inadverently breed the "bad" stuff. Polygenetics at work both good and bad genes.

This is a side note, we can't breed these defects out. They come with whatever conditions make the neat colours and patterns. We can just try to mitigate them a bit.

**lady_bug87** · 06-09-15, 07:19 AM

Yes my darling but we both know that you can further collections/ projects polygenetically without sacrificing quality and gene variability.

Those things are not mutually exclusive

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-15, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Yes my darling but we both know that you can further collections/ projects polygenetically without sacrificing quality and gene variability.

Those things are not mutually exclusive

True.

I was trying to say we should all be concious of how the good and bad genes work so we can do just as you believe.

**lady_bug87** · 06-09-15, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

True.

I was trying to say we should all be concious of how the good and bad genes work so we can do just as you believe.

True story bro.

SSSSnakes · 06-09-15, 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Aaron_S;964745]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

If you have pics or videos I'd like to see them. How many snakes in total? How large of a group did they come from?

I've seen hundreds of spiders and haven't seen this issue or ever asked about it by someone. I have a very wobbly one here and she does just fine with similar "control" issues.

These snakes that I have dealt with come from my job, were they buy and sell snakes from all different breeders. I personally do not like ball pythons of any kind and I am not a breeder of them. I don't have time to take pictures or videos of snakes I have no interest in. We also have not had any of these snake in a few years.

**lady_bug87** · 06-09-15, 08:06 PM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

These snakes that I have dealt with come from my job, were they buy and sell snakes from all different breeders. I personally do not like ball pythons of any kind and I am not a breeder of them. I don't have time to take pictures or videos of snakes I have no interest in. We also have not had any of these snake in a few years.

so... it happens "many times" just not in the past few years?

I call BULLDOODIE on you. Big. Fat. Bull. Turds.

SSSSnakes · 06-09-15, 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=lady_bug87;964819]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

so... it happens "many times" just not in the past few years?

I call BULLDOODIE on you. Big. Fat. Bull. Turds.

What's your issues? You think I care what you believe?

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-15, 10:44 PM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964803]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

These snakes that I have dealt with come from my job, were they buy and sell snakes from all different breeders. I personally do not like ball pythons of any kind and I am not a breeder of them. I don't have time to take pictures or videos of snakes I have no interest in. We also have not had any of these snake in a few years.

Well I was asking because I've never heard of or seen such a thing. So I'm always interested in new info.

My experience is different than yours and yes mine also includes animals from multiple breeders. I simply have never experienced a spider ball python that can't eat on it's own. Neither has anyone else I regularly speak with. I've seen similar threads like these on other forums and this has never been brought up.

To each their own experiences.

MDT · 06-09-15, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moreau

Also neurological issues in Jaguar carpet pythons, similar to spider balls.
Super Jaguars (jag to jag) is also a lethal combo, producing Leucistic carpets that don't live.

The infamous jag neuro weirdness....

**lady_bug87** · 06-09-15, 11:12 PM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964824]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

What's your issues? You think I care what you believe?

My issue is that you say things like they're fact when you have NOTHING to back it up with. Your experiences are just anecdotes like everyone else's. Open to criticism.

Lets not pretend it's more than that.

RAD House · 06-10-15, 01:04 AM

Not sure how him talking about his personal experience is the same as him saying "things like they're fact". Who knows maybe you are the genius amongst dunces. I have read in several different forums that the spider gene is associated with head wobble. No one is doing studies on the issues of captive bred pet snakes, so all we have to go off of is the word of people in the hobby. No one said that all spider morphs all have head wobble just that they see it more often in this morph than others.

SSSSnakes · 06-10-15, 04:03 AM

[QUOTE=lady_bug87;964835]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

My issue is that you say things like they're fact when you have NOTHING to back it up with. Your experiences are just anecdotes like everyone else's. Open to criticism.

Lets not pretend it's more than that.

My experiences are facts. I have no reason to lie about what has happened to me and it is rude for you to call me a liar just because you have never seen this before. If you don't believe me, that is your problem. I share what has happened to me over the past 30+ years. You are just a rude person who likes to cause trouble. Stop trolling.

DDW · 06-10-15, 05:12 AM

Come on, please calm down, I hate to see people fight

can we take a deep breathe and think. What is better for the forum? If new members end up reading fights between our own members, they might decide against staying, why don't we see what other than negative comments and such we can say please.