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Old 05-21-15, 02:28 PM   #46
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Soooo....because someone didn't pay, they are left out?

Am I reading that right?
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Old 05-21-15, 02:34 PM   #47
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

You can still get them shipped to you even if you didn't donate/become a member between 4-8-14 and 4-8-15, but you can't ship or cross state lines with them. But it has to be shipped by someone who was a member at that time.

I don't have a problem with this because its the people who became a member/donated that helped make any of this happen in the first place. Without all of that money USARK wouldn't have had the funds to make this possible for us.
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Old 05-21-15, 02:44 PM   #48
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

this is only temporary hopefully...as i read further (and with kyle's info), this is a part of the the STAY of original lacy act ruling by fws as set forth by the judge. there will undoubtably be appeals...one day (hopefully soon) this will be settled case law...at that time, the whole thing will be lifted and we can go back to doing what we did before this mess came about.

and as a point of order...no-one got "left out"...you coulda donated, volunteered, joined USARK as anytime before the injunction. i didn't, i wish i did...but it just kept getting pushed to the back burner. i did join the day AFTER the ruling...i knew that would likely not be covered by the decision, but as SnoopySnake said, if it weren't for USARK, nobody would taken up this fight. i am grateful for their efforts.
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Old 05-21-15, 02:48 PM   #49
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

That's correct. If you're not a member, you can't ship. That said if you're not a member you CAN receive a shipment. Unfortunately USFWS requested this as part of the injunction and the judge agreed with it.
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Old 05-21-15, 02:51 PM   #50
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

I suppose....

It's definitely a win, but still kind of sucky. I didn't have much to spare but made posts on Craigslist, talked to friends onlin and strangers and signed the petition to do everything I personally could. Not that I regret doing that by any means, and I am in no way blaming USARK since it wasn't their call, just...I dunno, a bit sore on the fact if I got a retic (which I want in the future) and needed to cross a state line, I'd be SOL unless I made a local friend with someone who donated and had them do that favor for me. Which...well...I'm kind of a hermit irl and all my friends are online ;-;

Sorry to moan but imo, there are other ways to help than just money. I'm all for membership, registration, or licensing...just seems unfair to have a time limit on it....not that 'firness' was exactly first thing on the court's mind. =/
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Old 05-21-15, 03:20 PM   #51
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Sure, its not the most ideal outcome. But it could've been worse, no? We could have gotten nothing. At least now you actually still have the opportunity to get something specific outside of your state. I just wish everyone would stop focusing on that negative aspect and appreciate that this was still a huge win. Things could have been much worse...
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Old 05-21-15, 03:24 PM   #52
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

True. Like MTD said though, hopefully more will happen in the future. =)
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Old 05-21-15, 06:43 PM   #53
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Just have a member receive the snake for you. I am sure someone in your state would do that for you. Fortunately, I donated I can only give around 20$ at a time but give something even if it's only a few bucks here and there it will add up. Ask relatives to donate for you instead of sending you that ugly sweater you'll never wear.
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Old 05-21-15, 10:51 PM   #54
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Quote:
Originally Posted by pet_snake_78 View Post
Just have a member receive the snake for you. I am sure someone in your state would do that for you. Fortunately, I donated I can only give around 20$ at a time but give something even if it's only a few bucks here and there it will add up. Ask relatives to donate for you instead of sending you that ugly sweater you'll never wear.
Only a member can ship, anybody can receive.
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Old 05-22-15, 01:40 AM   #55
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

How will they be able to enforce this?
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Old 05-22-15, 01:46 AM   #56
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

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Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785 View Post
How will they be able to enforce this?
It's admittedly difficult. What it seems like they've been trying to do is contacting people with animals for sale and asking if they'll ship or deliver across state lines. I doubt this is USFWS that is doing this, but HSUS members or other people hoping to catch someone screwing up. Otherwise they just hope people are honest on the shipping info. USARK is going to be giving sending out membership letters to people that need them in case an issue arises. Controlling the shipping is up to FedEx so something might slip through, or it might not. It's... complicated. Lol.
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Old 05-22-15, 01:59 AM   #57
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Quote:
Originally Posted by millertime89 View Post
It's admittedly difficult. What it seems like they've been trying to do is contacting people with animals for sale and asking if they'll ship or deliver across state lines. I doubt this is USFWS that is doing this, but HSUS members or other people hoping to catch someone screwing up. Otherwise they just hope people are honest on the shipping info. USARK is going to be giving sending out membership letters to people that need them in case an issue arises. Controlling the shipping is up to FedEx so something might slip through, or it might not. It's... complicated. Lol.
Yeah, I can imagine it would be hard to actually control that.

It sucks to know that as of right now I'm not going to be able to move back to MN with River, which is the only reason I'd need to use the injunction, but that's not for another few years so maybe they'll have them completely removed and shipping/moving back to normal by then. This is a huge step, even if it was probably overly-hopeful to expect a full lift on transportation right at this moment. We're moving really fast it seems, compared to how the last listings went.
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Old 05-22-15, 02:23 AM   #58
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785 View Post
Yeah, I can imagine it would be hard to actually control that.

It sucks to know that as of right now I'm not going to be able to move back to MN with River, which is the only reason I'd need to use the injunction, but that's not for another few years so maybe they'll have them completely removed and shipping/moving back to normal by then. This is a huge step, even if it was probably overly-hopeful to expect a full lift on transportation right at this moment. We're moving really fast it seems, compared to how the last listings went.
Because under the last USARK president they didn't do anything about it... Had they filled a lawsuit right away we probably would have seen the remaining four listed rather quickly and an injunction filled before that, not after.
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Old 05-25-15, 12:19 PM   #59
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Re: Lacey act injunction update

Here's a little more info from Rick Stanley at Kingsnake.com

USARK and its lawyers worked at a frantic pace to get a nationwide preliminary injunction (PI) for every single responsible reptile keeper in the continental United States since the recent USFWS Lacey Act listing of reticulated pythons and three species of anacondas.

We submitted multiple legal briefs/memoranda to, and had several hearings before, the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia. Hundreds of hours from numerous individuals have been invested. I am not sure when Phil Goss sleeps!

A PI is an extraordinary legal remedy that is only granted upon satisfying extremely stringent legal requirements. For example, USARK had to establish that its members would suffer irreparable harm without a PI and it is likely to prevail on the merits (when the court eventually hears the main case).

The law also requires the judge to grant a PI as narrow as possible. Because there is no full blown adversary process at the PI stage, the judge essentially assumes that the facts provided by USFWS are accurate for purposes of ruling on the PI. All of these strict legal principles and requirements are why you rarely see a PI granted, especially one on a nationwide basis enjoining enforcement of an environmental law.

Preliminary Injunction Granted

Against all odds, the judge ordered a nationwide PI "with respect to transportation by any Plaintiff or USARK member of the reticulated python and/or green anaconda" (1) out of any of the 49 continental United States, and (2) into all of those states except for Florida and Texas.

Questions and Limitations on Preliminary Injunction

When will the PI be effective?

June 2, 2015, unless USFWS appeals to the Federal Circuit Court and a stay of the PI is granted by the Federal Circuit Court before June 2, 2015. USFWS stated it would take them about 75 days to make a decision on such an appeal.

Does the PI allow every reptile keeper in the continental United States to ship/transport green anacondas and reticulated pythons across state lines?

At the last minute, USFWS made numerous arguments to try to restrict the scope of shipments. In response to USFWS arguments and to protect the PI ruling if appealed, the judge ruled that the PI allows transportation/shipment by anyone who was a member of USARK as of April 8, 2015.

A nationwide injunction for every reptile keeper, including shipments into Florida and Texas, will be issued if/when the judge rules favorably on the interstate transportation issue as part of the main case. Since the judge has already ruled during the PI stage of the case that USARK is likely to prevail on the interstate transportation issue on the merits, it is likely that such an injunction will be granted.

How do I determine my status/qualification for USARK membership?

ALL questions regarding USARK membership must be directed to contact@USARK.org. Please do not flood USARK with emails unless you have a current expectation of shipping/transporting green anacondas or reticulated pythons across state lines. The limited USARK resources are needed to focus on future issues in the case, etc.

Does the PI allow transportation/shipment to or from Hawaii, Puerto Rico, territories and possessions of the US or Washington, DC?

No. These activities are prohibited by a provision of the Lacey Act that was not challenged in the PI. This issue may be resolved in our favor when the court hears the merits of our case.

Does the PI allow importation from other countries into the United States?

No, but exportation to other countries is permitted. In addition, the ban on importation will be addressed when USARK presents the merits stage of the case.

Does the PI allow transportation/shipment into a state in violation of that state’s law?

No.

Does the PI allow transportation of Beni anacondas or DeShauensee’s anacondas across state lines?

No, such an injunction could not be granted because these anacondas have not previously been available in trade.

Does the PI allow me to ship out of the 47 continental US states through Miami or Dallas?

No. Shipments out of the 47 continental US states must go through one of the other 16 USFWS designated export ports. Shipments beginning in Florida can go through Miami and shipments beginning in Texas can go through Dallas.

Below is a full list of the other designated ports (Miami and Dallas are excluded):

Anchorage, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Honolulu, Houston, Los Angeles, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, New Orleans, New York, Newark, Portland, San Francisco, and Seattle.

Is anyone restricted from making a shipment via plane solely because it flies over Florida, Texas, Washington, DC, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, or any territory or possession of the US?

No.
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