Your view of the reptile hobby

[StudentoReptile]

I don't know what else to say as far as advice so here is what I do:
- I don't really "buy" herps anymore. I've been doing this so long, people know me often offer to give me stuff for free sooner or later, and if I don't want it, I find someone who does. I'm also on the board for a local reptile rescue so this helps.
- I educate the general public whenever possible.
- I apparently have a gene where I am unable to turn my brain off, much to my wife's dismay. I never stop learning and researching and doing creative things.
- I get out and field herp as much as possible. I feel this keeps me connected with my local herp fauna.
- I do what I can to conserve and protect that local herp fauna.
- I started a herp society that more or less promotes all of the above.

My biggest obstacle is not the general public, but the so-called "veteran" hobbyists (sometimes like myself) that think they already know it all, and don't wish to hear that a lot of what they are doing is incorrect, and the information they are promoting is also incorrect.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

What is your view on the reptile hobby as of now? What are some changes that would make it "better" in your opinion? In what direction would you like to see this hobby go?

good question! and not one that many are willing to ask!

There are several thing about caring for reptiles which I would like to see improved, for eg minimum enclosure sizes put into law, more of the tax (or additional tax) going to animal welfare groups and conservation efforts

I'd also like to see better dialog between animal rights/welfare groups and the reptile keeping community - there has been a stand off for far too long, with both sides insisting the other side does not have valid concerns, but imo, both sides need to change, including us as carers of captive reptiles

Over the last few years I have tried to stop using the word ''keeper'' and in place use the word, ''carer'', because to many people imo see reptiles as a disposable commodity, part of their Cool Factor, and many people looking from the outside, see a cruel pastime with little concern for the welfare of the animals - I am inclined to believe that those who truly care about the captive reptiles they 'own', are actually a minority, and this concerns me greatly.

If we do not progress, our hobby will not survive, and to be honest, although I will be sad if that day comes, I think the well being of the millions of captive reptiles around the world, is far more important than my own 'need' to care for captive reptiles privately.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by formica

good question! and not one that many are willing to ask!

There are several thing about caring for reptiles which I would like to see improved, for eg minimum enclosure sizes put into law, more of the tax (or additional tax) going to animal welfare groups and conservation efforts

I'd also like to see better dialog between animal rights/welfare groups and the reptile keeping community - there has been a stand off for far too long, with both sides insisting the other side does not have valid concerns, but imo, both sides need to change, including us as carers of captive reptiles

Over the last few years I have tried to stop using the word ''keeper'' and in place use the word, ''carer'', because to many people imo see reptiles as a disposable commodity, part of their Cool Factor, and many people looking from the outside, see a cruel pastime with little concern for the welfare of the animals - I am inclined to believe that those who truly care about the captive reptiles they 'own', are actually a minority, and this concerns me greatly.

If we do not progress, our hobby will not survive, and to be honest, although I will be sad if that day comes, I think the well being of the millions of captive reptiles around the world, is far more important than my own 'need' to care for captive reptiles privately.

Very well said, some points I haven't exactly thought about before.

What are some examples of the minimum enclosures sizes you would put into law if it were up to you?(as a hypothetical, I just want to see where you are going with this)

[formica]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Very well said, some points I haven't exactly thought about before.

What are some examples of the minimum enclosures sizes you would put into law if you had the power?(as a hypothetical, I just want to see where you are going with this)

for eg in Holland, they have a minimum size in law, Width = snake length, Height and Depth = 1/2 snake length

but, I think as a community we should go further than that, as some snakes require significantly more space than that, in order to have a high quality of life, and the ability to carry out all its natural behaviors

[Mikoh4792]

wow imagine that. I keep mainly carpets and they average out around 6 feet. That would be 6x3x3 for each adult. Pretty big and could make for an interesting setup.


Where would that put retic/burm/annie keepers? Would you say the law should apply to them as well?(ex. a 16ft burm needs to be housed in a 16x8x8)

[sharthun]

Very well said, and as student mentioned, I never stop trying to learn and educate when I have the opportunity. I also field herp to keep myself connected to nature. Unfortunately, as long as there is market for collectable morphs, we will have to ride out the waves.

Originally Posted by formica

good question! and not one that many are willing to ask!

There are several thing about caring for reptiles which I would like to see improved, for eg minimum enclosure sizes put into law, more of the tax (or additional tax) going to animal welfare groups and conservation efforts

I'd also like to see better dialog between animal rights/welfare groups and the reptile keeping community - there has been a stand off for far too long, with both sides insisting the other side does not have valid concerns, but imo, both sides need to change, including us as carers of captive reptiles

Over the last few years I have tried to stop using the word ''keeper'' and in place use the word, ''carer'', because to many people imo see reptiles as a disposable commodity, part of their Cool Factor, and many people looking from the outside, see a cruel pastime with little concern for the welfare of the animals - I am inclined to believe that those who truly care about the captive reptiles they 'own', are actually a minority, and this concerns me greatly.

If we do not progress, our hobby will not survive, and to be honest, although I will be sad if that day comes, I think the well being of the millions of captive reptiles around the world, is far more important than my own 'need' to care for captive reptiles privately.

[Jim Smith]

To tell you the truth, I was really uncertain what to expect in the responses to this very interesting question. I must say, I've very impressed with the thoughtful and honest responses. I suspect that with people thinking at this level of maturity and consideration that the hobby with be just fine. Sure there are some meatheads out there that garner all the press when they do something incredibly stupid or cruel, but there are also people like those who have responded to this question so far that will help turn the tide through education and responsible animal husbandry. I think that the responses to this thread will also serve to educate some of the people here on sSNAKESs that perhaps have not yet reached the same level of professionalism yet. Excellent thread.

[Pareeeee]

I'm only in the hobby because I love snakes. I don't see myself breeding in the near future.

What would I change? One would be pet shops. 9.5 out of 10 pet shop owners and/or employees know absolutely ZIP about reptiles. Pet stores are one of the few businesses I know of where you don't need to know how to do the job in order to get it. They know nothing about the animals or products they're selling. Ask a pet store employee what you need for a reptile? They will show you heat rocks, moisture-sucking light fixtures, tiny enclosures, pine and cedar bedding, etc.

This is a HUGE thing I would change about the reptile hobby. There would be a lot fewer reptiles being kept under poor conditions if pet stores educated their employees, and started selling the right product for the right animal. Most newbies will ask pet store employees for advice. I mean, it makes sense, they sell the animals so why wouldn't they know how to look after them?

I think there should be an actual animal 'handbook' that all pet stores must have. All animals listed alphabetically, with housing requirements, food, etc. Employees must consult this handbook before selling said animal.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by athms

Ball pythons,leopard geckos,corn snakes,bearded dragons,crested geckos is all people are buying and selling for money. 95% of videos i watch is of a 8 year old that has bought a leopard gecko and is going to start breeding them and i always think "wow your going to make lots of money cause not like your going up against giant breeders". Here is the reptile community.

In it for money-85%
Want to show off-5%
In it for the animals-10%

Why don't people try making morphs of other animals? Like tiger salamanders or green anoles other wise were just going to be stuck in the same cycle.

I haven't read all the posts but this is pretty judgmental.

You apparently know EVERYONE in the reptile and hobby and why they breed. Right it's ALL about money. Get off your high horse and actually talk to those people instead of thinking you know why they do what they do.

People ALWAYS claim the hobby is so negative but what you see online is a FRACTION of the true hobby so climb out of the hole you're in and go live the hobby. Be apart of it instead of talking down to those that you know nothing about.

By the way, you can't breed morphs for just any species until they are brought in to captivity. Go hunt for some anoles and when you find an albino or axanthic or a purple one go and breed it. Don't just tell others how to live THEIR hobby by YOUR standards.

Asshat.

[athms]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I haven't read all the posts but this is pretty judgmental.

You apparently know EVERYONE in the reptile and hobby and why they breed. Right it's ALL about money. Get off your high horse and actually talk to those people instead of thinking you know why they do what they do.

People ALWAYS claim the hobby is so negative but what you see online is a FRACTION of the true hobby so climb out of the hole you're in and go live the hobby. Be apart of it instead of talking down to those that you know nothing about.

By the way, you can't breed morphs for just any species until they are brought in to captivity. Go hunt for some anoles and when you find an albino or axanthic or a purple one go and breed it. Don't just tell others how to live THEIR hobby by YOUR standards.

Asshat.

Well yes i have met every single person who has ever owned a reptile and i take pride in that. And if i fell off my high horse i would never hit the ground. And their are a certain few people who have successfully breed tiger salamanders on caudata fourm.

[athms]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I haven't read all the posts but this is pretty judgmental.

You apparently know EVERYONE in the reptile and hobby and why they breed. Right it's ALL about money. Get off your high horse and actually talk to those people instead of thinking you know why they do what they do.

People ALWAYS claim the hobby is so negative but what you see online is a FRACTION of the true hobby so climb out of the hole you're in and go live the hobby. Be apart of it instead of talking down to those that you know nothing about.

By the way, you can't breed morphs for just any species until they are brought in to captivity. Go hunt for some anoles and when you find an albino or axanthic or a purple one go and breed it. Don't just tell others how to live THEIR hobby by YOUR standards.

Asshat.

OOO yeah and anoles dont live were i am so i guess i will be looking for a long time but you probably knew that since your a expert

[Sharlynn93]

Saying that all of us just use our animals as basically status symbols is insulting...if we didn't care about them, why are we here trying to get more information about keeping them healthy and "happy"? I very much enjoy reading everything I can on my snakes, and take great pride in them...I love educating others about these misunderstood animals and have changed quite a few peoples opinions on them...even had a few people overcome their biggest fears by holding my snakes. I love them all and make sure I do everything I can to ensure they have what they need...

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by athms

Well yes i have met every single person who has ever owned a reptile and i take pride in that. And if i fell off my high horse i would never hit the ground. And their are a certain few people who have successfully breed tiger salamanders on caudata fourm.

I never said tiger salamanders can't be bred. Go and read what I wrote. I said you can't just pick any species to breed for morphs because they are uncommon.

You need to have morphs appear before it happens.

My point is simple. It's fine to dislike a part of the hobby. I don't care because it doesn't affect my enjoyment.
It's just really disrespectful and rude to say it's a bad part of the hobby just because you don't like it.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by athms

OOO yeah and anoles dont live were i am so i guess i will be looking for a long time but you probably knew that since your a expert

Go find them where they are. Go travel and experience the hobby.

I am an expert. Thanks for noticing.

One day. When you eat all your wheaties and grow big and strong you can carry my snake hook. Maybe.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Go find them where they are. Go travel and experience the hobby.

This I would like to do someday in the future. Australia would be my first choice(not really for the hobby but more for field herping and such...etc)