retic genes=size?

venom_king · 02-01-14, 12:07 PM

Hi as it says above can mailand retic's size be influenced with the genes they have? I know that their localities play a part but from what i've read they can. So if you could tell me these set genes so i can get an idea! Thanks for any help.

Terranaut · 02-01-14, 12:25 PM

Your question is way to vague. Are you asking for gene sequence numbers???

**millertime89** · 02-01-14, 01:08 PM

Do you mean do morphs affect the size of the animal? There's conjecture about this as it seems tigers and albinos get the biggest, but I would speculate that it has to do with the fact that those animals have been around the longest and the big ones seem to be older animals. There seems to be a number of large normals as well which I feel supports this. Going the other way there is proof of this as GoldenChild, Genetic Stripe, Phantom Stripe, and Anery are all known to come from dwarf locales (Jampea, Selayer, etc.). There's some new stuff that has come out of dwarf locales as well that haven't really become a mainstream morph yet (Marble for one, although it seems there may be a dwarf, and a superdwarf morph that are different that have been named the same thing).

venom_king · 02-01-14, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Your question is way to vague. Are you asking for gene sequence numbers???

sorry about that it's stuff like i heard that tiger retics get big, Stuff like that

venom_king · 02-01-14, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

Do you mean do morphs affect the size of the animal? There's conjecture about this as it seems tigers and albinos get the biggest, but I would speculate that it has to do with the fact that those animals have been around the longest and the big ones seem to be older animals. There seems to be a number of large normals as well which I feel supports this. Going the other way there is proof of this as GoldenChild, Genetic Stripe, Phantom Stripe, and Anery are all known to come from dwarf locales (Jampea, Selayer, etc.). There's some new stuff that has come out of dwarf locales as well that haven't really become a mainstream morph yet (Marble for one, although it seems there may be a dwarf, and a superdwarf morph that are different that have been named the same thing).

selayer thats a new locality for me, Is there any other's i know of kalatoa, Kayuadi, madu and jampea. Or is that them all including selayer?

Terranaut · 02-01-14, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venom_king

sorry about that it's stuff like i heard that tiger retics get big, Stuff like that

Duh. I'm sorry. I guess I should have known that.

psychocircus · 02-01-14, 03:40 PM

Generally yes. I can't tell you particular morphs and which ones are larger or smaller, but your best bet is to find a few retics you're interested in and email the breeder, asking the size and age of the parents.

**Tsubaki** · 02-01-14, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by venom_king

selayer thats a new locality for me, Is there any other's i know of kalatoa, Kayuadi, madu and jampea. Or is that them all including selayer?

I'm not sure if you mean all locality's or just dwarfs, but either way you are missing several. Including the ones i used to own

. Lets see the ones i know by heart..

Mainlands, the really giant ones. Sumatra, Sulawesi, Makasar, Borneo
The slightly smaller mainlands (still huge) Java, Ambon, Buru, Ceram.
The rest of the dwarfs, Salayer, Bali, Buton, Jampea.
Then we have the so called 'super' or 'real' dwarfs, Kayuadi, Kalaotoa, Kalao and Madu's (or honey islands as some call them)
Btw i do Not agree with some of this, it's just what they have been sorted into. However i have never seen a Ceram really outgrow a dwarf, and i have seen Jampea's so big i would not dare call them dwarfs.

Anyway, i once read a very long article about someone who researched if their genes really determined so much.. It was a VERY large chunk off information and all in dutch. But i will give you the 'short' version..

Came down to this, genes do influence growth and final sizes. However, they fed a superdwarf from Tiny parents the absolute maximum amount of food it would take each feeding. They did not offer it food more often, only as much as it wanted at the regular feedings. That animal grew a lot larger than any of her siblings and her parents, she was the size of a very large dwarf when she reached adulthood. And this animal did not get fat, she just grew the same way large retics do when fed their maximum. Her Siblings were fed with prey animals they would come across in their natural habitat, and stayed much closer to a 'natural size' of an animal from that island.
People who buy a superdwarf usually do not want giants, and if you feed them prey animals that are '''natural'' to them. They will grow accordingly. This was a single experiment, however personally i believe, any smaller retic has potential to become much larger when larger food is available. They have adjusted to the smaller available prey in a very smart way, but if given the chance to grow they will take it. I am Very curious if when a couple of Super dwarfs fed like this, would produce offspring that has potential to get even bigger! If anyone would ever try that, i would follow it each step of the way

Tiger generally do seem to grow large, i can not say if that is because they have a lot of genes from the larger retics. Or that the morph might influence it.. I personally would not mind it, my little tiger lady can grow as large as she wants to

venom_king · 02-02-14, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychocircus

Generally yes. I can't tell you particular morphs and which ones are larger or smaller, but your best bet is to find a few retics you're interested in and email the breeder, asking the size and age of the parents.

I've been talking to 'the reptile room' on fb and from the conversation, I've had with him is that mainland retic genes such as golden childs and genetic stripe (i think) are smaller than wild mainlands. So for example i'm looking into getting a golden child and a titanium if i feed smaller size meals, not underfeeding a such just certain sized rats that are smaller than he would normally eat, He'll stay around around 13ft or so feet in 2-3 years (can't remember the exact numbers) so is that all true?. And he breeds and owns dwarfs and mainlands.

venom_king · 02-02-14, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

I'm not sure if you mean all locality's or just dwarfs, but either way you are missing several. Including the ones i used to own

. Lets see the ones i know by heart..

Mainlands, the really giant ones. Sumatra, Sulawesi, Makasar, Borneo
The slightly smaller mainlands (still huge) Java, Ambon, Buru, Ceram.
The rest of the dwarfs, Salayer, Bali, Buton, Jampea.
Then we have the so called 'super' or 'real' dwarfs, Kayuadi, Kalaotoa, Kalao and Madu's (or honey islands as some call them)
Btw i do Not agree with some of this, it's just what they have been sorted into. However i have never seen a Ceram really outgrow a dwarf, and i have seen Jampea's so big i would not dare call them dwarfs.

Anyway, i once read a very long article about someone who researched if their genes really determined so much.. It was a VERY large chunk off information and all in dutch. But i will give you the 'short' version..

Came down to this, genes do influence growth and final sizes. However, they fed a superdwarf from Tiny parents the absolute maximum amount of food it would take each feeding. They did not offer it food more often, only as much as it wanted at the regular feedings. That animal grew a lot larger than any of her siblings and her parents, she was the size of a very large dwarf when she reached adulthood. And this animal did not get fat, she just grew the same way large retics do when fed their maximum. Her Siblings were fed with prey animals they would come across in their natural habitat, and stayed much closer to a 'natural size' of an animal from that island.
People who buy a superdwarf usually do not want giants, and if you feed them prey animals that are '''natural'' to them. They will grow accordingly. This was a single experiment, however personally i believe, any smaller retic has potential to become much larger when larger food is available. They have adjusted to the smaller available prey in a very smart way, but if given the chance to grow they will take it. I am Very curious if when a couple of Super dwarfs fed like this, would produce offspring that has potential to get even bigger! If anyone would ever try that, i would follow it each step of the way

Tiger generally do seem to grow large, i can not say if that is because they have a lot of genes from the larger retics. Or that the morph might influence it.. I personally would not mind it, my little tiger lady can grow as large as she wants to

Thats really cleared that up for me! And i was on about their localities dwarf and mainland. Can you own all these localities of retic?

**millertime89** · 02-02-14, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

I'm not sure if you mean all locality's or just dwarfs, but either way you are missing several. Including the ones i used to own

. Lets see the ones i know by heart..

Mainlands, the really giant ones. Sumatra, Sulawesi, Makasar, Borneo
The slightly smaller mainlands (still huge) Java, Ambon, Buru, Ceram.
The rest of the dwarfs, Salayer, Bali, Buton, Jampea.
Then we have the so called 'super' or 'real' dwarfs, Kayuadi, Kalaotoa, Kalao and Madu's (or honey islands as some call them)
Btw i do Not agree with some of this, it's just what they have been sorted into. However i have never seen a Ceram really outgrow a dwarf, and i have seen Jampea's so big i would not dare call them dwarfs.

Agreed, I posted some pics a while back of Jason Gaspar's 17ft Jampea. Sure its not a 20+ft snake, but that's definitely out of dwarf territory in my book. Jamps being dwarfs comes down to who you're asking. Same with Kayuadi's, there are some rather large individuals as well of this locality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

Anyway, i once read a very long article about someone who researched if their genes really determined so much.. It was a VERY large chunk off information and all in dutch. But i will give you the 'short' version..

Came down to this, genes do influence growth and final sizes. However, they fed a superdwarf from Tiny parents the absolute maximum amount of food it would take each feeding. They did not offer it food more often, only as much as it wanted at the regular feedings. That animal grew a lot larger than any of her siblings and her parents, she was the size of a very large dwarf when she reached adulthood. And this animal did not get fat, she just grew the same way large retics do when fed their maximum. Her Siblings were fed with prey animals they would come across in their natural habitat, and stayed much closer to a 'natural size' of an animal from that island.
People who buy a superdwarf usually do not want giants, and if you feed them prey animals that are '''natural'' to them. They will grow accordingly. This was a single experiment, however personally i believe, any smaller retic has potential to become much larger when larger food is available. They have adjusted to the smaller available prey in a very smart way, but if given the chance to grow they will take it. I am Very curious if when a couple of Super dwarfs fed like this, would produce offspring that has potential to get even bigger! If anyone would ever try that, i would follow it each step of the way

Tiger generally do seem to grow large, i can not say if that is because they have a lot of genes from the larger retics. Or that the morph might influence it.. I personally would not mind it, my little tiger lady can grow as large as she wants to

And on the flip side there are people that have stuffed some superdwarf localities with as much food as they could eat and they still never got bigger than 8ft. Each animal is unique and there will always be anomalies.

Goldenchild and Genetic stripe are definitely not "Mainland" morphs. They have gotten big through years of crossing but the originals are very much dwarf animals.
Dwarf: Halmahera (possibly bigger but there isn't a lot of documentation on them yet and the people I've spoken to say they haven't gotten very large.)
Superdwarf: Karopma (Newer, not a whole lot in the US, so far I only know two people with them)

**Tsubaki** · 02-02-14, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

Superdwarf: Karopma (Newer, not a whole lot in the US, so far I only know two people with them)

I have not heard of those yet! None known in Europe, i would LOVE to see pictures if you happen to know where to find any? And i agree, some Kayuadi do not like to stay dwarfish sizes either

venom_king · 02-03-14, 04:47 AM

So could feeding a male mainland retic, Smaller meals keep him around the 13ft mark? Not starving him just smaller meals.

**Tsubaki** · 02-03-14, 09:11 AM

It.. could.. theoretically. If it gets less nutrients to grow, it will grow less. However i see no logical reason why anyone would do this, seems unhealthy. Mainland male still too big? Buy a dwarf would be my response. Deliberately feeding smaller or larger prey in stead of just a fitting one, makes my morality bells go off. I did post this because it is a very interesting subject, with interesting results. I do however not encourage anyone adjusting food sizes to 'shape' an animal to their desire. Not in either direction.

venom_king · 02-03-14, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

It.. could.. theoretically. If it gets less nutrients to grow, it will grow less. However i see no logical reason why anyone would do this, seems unhealthy. Mainland male still too big? Buy a dwarf would be my response. Deliberately feeding smaller or larger prey in stead of just a fitting one, makes my morality bells go off. I did post this because it is a very interesting subject, with interesting results. I do however not encourage anyone adjusting food sizes to 'shape' an animal to their desire. Not in either direction.

I was not going to do that, I just heard that someone had done it thats all. I'm planning on getting a few dwarfs and maybe a mainland...and a burm!