Meet Lazarus (rescue)

Spirit_Scale · 07-23-13, 03:07 PM

So my snake family now numbers two (for now

) with the addition of a rescued 11 year old male BCI mix (Columbian x Hogg Island).

He's a kijiji snake who was in need of a good home and I'm experienced in dealing with animals in need of TLC (and have a good exotic vet who lets me do payment plans) so home he came.
Picked him up from some kid who couldn't/wouldn't pay for his vet bills and halfway home the mites started crawling out of the container he was in *shudder*. We pulled over, dumped the container and the bedding and put him in a clean pillowcase. Got home and sealed up the clothes I was wearing in a bag in a closet till I can wash them and sealed and threw out the pillowcase he came home in. He's currently in a glass tank on paper towel. The tank has tape around the top (not experienced with mites...but if it keeps pinheads in why not?). Hopefully that (and a heck of a lot of handwashing, separate supplies for him and our existing herps, hand sanitizer, closed doors) will keep the mites from spreading. I was sure he was clean...damn....I even had a second pair of eyes looking him over and she missed them. No signs of IBD though so thats good.

Poor little dude (he's about 6 feet or so) is in need of some serious TLC, has an abscess in his jaw, mites (yuuuck) and what sounds like an RI. He's in quarantine in the kitchen for the next three months.

These are from yesterday (he's in shed currently), he's brightened up a bit today and hasn't bit or struck at me yet though hissed a bit (knocks on wood) when I've had to handle him to clean his quarantine tank, wipe him down with disinfectant (wohoo leftover chlorhexidine), dry him off from his baths (with betadine) and apply mite-off to him and his enclosure.
Even in the last 24 hours the number of mites I find on the paper towel are going down drastically and nearly all of them are dead. Hoping moving him into a new enclosure that was pre-treated will keep them from breeding and becoming established and its just a matter of killing the adults.
I'm not quite used to how quick boas move and their body language so its been interesting! My ball python is so slow and chilled out in comparison.

He's going into the vet sometime this week to get everything looked at.
In about a week I'll offer him a f/t medium rat and see how he does (apparently that's what he was eating) Beautiful little guy and such a sweetie considering all he's been through, very happy to have him

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-23-13, 03:40 PM

At 6ft, he should be eating larger than a medium. My 5ft boa is eating large rats at 275+ grams, and it looks like he may need to be stepped up fairly soon.

But, I'm glad to hear you picked him up, and you're giving him the care he needs.

Sounds like you're one the right track with the mites, and I hope his RI and abscess clears up. Even dulled out in shed, he looks very nice.

Definitely keep us updated on his progress, and make sure to post post-shed pictures.

Spirit_Scale · 07-23-13, 03:51 PM

That's what I thought originally, but he's long and skinny (my 4 foot BP has more girth than he does) and what goes for 'medium' (150 grams i think +/-) in my area will leave a pretty good lump in him, I think...I'll have a better idea what to feed him when he's been weighed at the vets.

I've had him out a little more today and I think the 6 foot estimate is a little generous if not the maximum. He's certainly over 4 feet, but might be closer to five with a little extra.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-23-13, 04:02 PM

Ah. If he is smaller than that, then I can see why he was fed that size. Ball pythons are generally thicker-bodied than boa constrictors. The 5ft boa is now the same thickness as my 3.5ft ball python, and the ball is a little thin due to his picky feeding habits over the past half a year....Boa constrictors should have a box shape if they're in shape, over the roundness of a bp.

Spirit_Scale · 07-25-13, 10:28 AM

Quick update today, Lazarus is doing well and his appointment is this Saturday to get looked at by the vet.
Offered some food last night (Saturday is usually feeding day at my place, and wanted to offer food and give him some time to digest prior to the vet), but he wasn't interested. Bummer. Hoping he *actually* has been eating and *actually* takes f/t---with the asshat who had him god knows if that was true but hoping that it was just new home jitters.

If not that abscess is going to be more of a problem then I thought.

On the mite front it *looks* like we are winning the war. Of course there's always the nightmarish possibility that there's teeny eggs and etc I can't see that are just waiting to hatch and start the war all over again just when we're in the clear...but I'm trying to be positive because he was transferred into a pre-treated new tank and substrate and was treated before being put in there, so hopefully the mites haven't been able to breed. I *might* wipe up/see a total of 10-20 dead mites today when I clean the tank. When he came home 4 days ago there was easily that number just on him alone.

I'll continue the mite treatment for a month regardless of whether or not I see more, and hopefully that will nuke them.

**Aaron_S** · 07-25-13, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

At 6ft, he should be eating larger than a medium. My 5ft boa is eating large rats at 275+ grams, and it looks like he may need to be stepped up fairly soon.

Wrong.

It doesn't NEED to be eating that size. I know people who breed boas who feed their males a small rat weekly and the adult females get a medium rat.

That's roughly 100 grams for males and 175 - 200 grams for females. BREEDING animals.

**Aaron_S** · 07-25-13, 11:54 AM

Where did you learn the age of the snake? Just curious. You don't see many older animals.

You're wasting a lot of time and energy on your mite war. I don't know mite-off but what does work is Nix hair lice remover.

1. Buy it over the counter at shoppers. (Don't forget to scratch and itch your hair for the pharmacist!)
2. Dilute it.
3. Remove water dish
4. Spray the snake and the entire enclosure
5. Replace water bowl a day later
6. Repeat 2 weeks later

The abscess is probably keeping the snake from eating. It looks "healthy" sized from the pics so should maintain fine.

Spirit_Scale · 07-25-13, 12:15 PM

The guy who had him previously said he was an '02, that's all I've got to go on.

As far as the choice of mite-killer I am plenty satisfied with the mite-off and don't wish to use anything stronger or more chemical-based than that. True that the mite-off does have chemical ingredients (SLS) and some oils---but if I had to pick I'd take a surfractant that (in combination with the oils and water) breaks surface tension and drowns the mites.
Especially since permithrin (active ingredient in nix) is neurotoxic to snakes, and is not to be used on small children and must be avoided to get into the eyes (which is a problem because mites like to hide in around the eyes and in the heat pits etc). I don't want that on my snake. Especially since he's an older animal and has a questionable health status as it is.
As well, he has been treated (according to his old owner) twice with nix.
Given its potential to harm and its questionable efficiency in this case it is time to switch up tactics.

The mite off and daily cleanings and soaks are proving effective.
I'd rather put in the effort than put his health at risk or hurt him just so I can put in less effort or get it done quicker.

This is him today, coloured up some but still no shed.

**Aaron_S** · 07-25-13, 12:18 PM

Meh I see it as putting the health at risk the longer the mites are left.

Nix is used on a lot of snakes on a regular basis when properly diluted. I know the active ingredient and how my products work but thanks for trying.

I don't get how you prefer putting oils on a snake but disagree with nix. Oils are harmful as well. The fact it suffocates things is the issue there.

We'll agree to disagree. Nix isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

Spirit_Scale · 07-25-13, 01:22 PM

Wasn't trying to start a war so for that I apologize

I'm more comfortable using a product which has a bit of oil (I'm in no way coating him with it---a procedure which I know has negative consequences) then using a product that even when properly diluted has been known to cause fatalities, especially when he's an older and sort of sickly/health status unknown animal.
The other thing is that Nix is not a reptile-developed or approved product---the Zoo-med mite-off is.

That's all I meant.
If you've had good luck with the Nix product then by all means, I'm just not comfortable with it and prefer (what I feel) is a less harsh method, even if it is more labor intensive.
Its been a few days and 95% of the mites are dead---so i've got to be doing something right.

**Aaron_S** · 07-25-13, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit_Scale

Wasn't trying to start a war so for that I apologize

I'm more comfortable using a product which has a bit of oil (I'm in no way coating him with it---a procedure which I know has negative consequences) then using a product that even when properly diluted has been known to cause fatalities, especially when he's an older and sort of sickly/health status unknown animal.
The other thing is that Nix is not a reptile-developed or approved product---the Zoo-med mite-off is.

That's all I meant.
If you've had good luck with the Nix product then by all means, I'm just not comfortable with it and prefer (what I feel) is a less harsh method, even if it is more labor intensive.
Its been a few days and 95% of the mites are dead---so i've got to be doing something right.

There is no war. I never said there was.

I'd like you to prove of these fatalities while nix was properly diluted. I've never heard of it and yes, I've seen the same snakes nixed twice, every month for 6 months. (Sprayed before leaving for a show so nothing will stick to them or crawl from one table to this one and then once again at home, just in case something did come home)

I have yet to see it be fatal when used properly. I wouldn't put too much stock into items because they are commercially made for reptile use. Doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

I can also get rid of the adult mites with water and dish soap to break the surface so they drown. Eggs is what you have to worry about it. Let me know if you have a new outbreak in a couple weeks when you think they are all gone.

I'm only continuing this so anyone who reads this thread will have both pros and cons of both products so they can make the same decision we've made, which product will work best for us.

bigsnakegirl785 · 07-25-13, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Wrong.

It doesn't NEED to be eating that size. I know people who breed boas who feed their males a small rat weekly and the adult females get a medium rat.

That's roughly 100 grams for males and 175 - 200 grams for females. BREEDING animals.

I must've misunderstood what I was told then, or they told me the info I heard and left out the part about breeding animals.

**Aaron_S** · 07-25-13, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I must've misunderstood what I was told then, or they told me the info I heard and left out the part about breeding animals.

As I said, doesn't NEED to be bigger.

Quite often we over feed our captives and overestimate what they need to thrive.

People love to feed huge meals to their captives on a regular basis. Try feeding your pets 10 - 15% of their body weight on a regular weekly basis, bet you'll see a faster growth.

dbassa · 07-25-13, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

feeding your pets 10 - 15% of their body weight on a regular weekly basis, bet you'll see a faster growth.

I really like feeding by this percentage formula. I first read about it on Alessia55's web page which sadly I can no longer find, and have been using it for the entire time I have had my ball and corn snakes.

Mikoh4792 · 07-25-13, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

As I said, doesn't NEED to be bigger.

Quite often we over feed our captives and overestimate what they need to thrive.

People love to feed huge meals to their captives on a regular basis. Try feeding your pets 10 - 15% of their body weight on a regular weekly basis, bet you'll see a faster growth.

do you feed adult snakes weekly too when using this formula?