My Cay Caulker's Boa just passed away

Mikoh4792 · 06-09-13, 11:03 AM

It was her feeding day two days ago and she seemed fine.She was in her warm hide until today. I was doing a water change for her enclosure and I noticed she regurgitated again. I cleaned that mess up and put her in a tub with shallow luke warm water to wash off the smelly juices. After I put her back in her cage she started to convulse and twitch like crazy. Almost like a seizure. At one point she bit her self and constricted. Then she started to lay upside down. After a few minutes of this convulsing she died. There was no more breathing, her body lay motionless and her body went limp. I tried touching her head, nothing. I flashed a light into her eyes, no constriction.

What could this have been? I've only had her now for 2-3 weeks and this is the first time I saw her do this. I don't know if this is of relevance but she regurgitated before(as some of you may already know) and she came to me very skinny and underfed.

She had two warm hides. One was 92F, the other was 89F. She had plenty of hides and temperatures ranges in her enclosure to choose from. Fresh water everyday.

rocknhorse76 · 06-09-13, 11:13 AM

Sorry for your loss :-( Sometimes they're just too far gone to save.

KORBIN5895 · 06-09-13, 02:08 PM

Well it could've been some nasty virus from the breeder. Did you quarantine her? Also the multiple regurgitation would have destroyed her esophagus. What did you bath her in? Could there have been a chemical residue in it?

franks · 06-09-13, 02:18 PM

Sorry to hear Mikoh

Mikoh4792 · 06-09-13, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Well it could've been some nasty virus from the breeder. Did you quarantine her? Also the multiple regurgitation would have destroyed her esophagus. What did you bath her in? Could there have been a chemical residue in it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocknhorse76

Sorry for your loss :-( Sometimes they're just too far gone to save.

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Sorry to hear Mikoh

Thanks guys.

Korbin, I kept her in the same room with my other reptiles. I don't know how much of a difference it makes with that in mind, but she was on the opposite side of the room and I always washed my hands before and after I went inside her enclosure(cleaning water, checking probes...etc maintenance). I never handled her a whole lot knowing that she wasn't in the best shape before I received her.

I bathed her in an iris tub. It was brand new and washed. I am very meticulous when it comes to my pets because I am a bit of a paranoid when it comes to germs. The only thing I ever used on the tub was hand soap just to clean the dust and possible germs off of it. I used luke warm water from the sink.

It was a very upsetting experience for me. She was twitching and having head tremors. It looked very "painful" for her. I just buried her in my backyard.

EDIT: Korbin, I know I can't take this guy's word on faith, but I just want to share what he told me after I told him about my snakes death.

"I am very sorry she died, I don't know what to say. Can you email me a pic of her? I had a few of these over the past year and really had no problems with them, except for the very first ones we had that I tried feeding them like regular boas and found out the hard way ,you can't do that. I swiched to smaller meals and everything was fine. I know how frustrating that can be, to loose an animal that seems like you just got in"

I can't diagnose exactly what was wrong with her so I suggested that it may have been IBD because she showed similar symptoms. Abnormal weight loss, regurgitation, "dull". And before her final moments convulsions and head tremors. This is what he replied with.

"Being I am not a vet as well, all I can do is guess. Usually, in cases of IBD, they are not instantly fatal, at least in my expierience with the disease. She has always been kept seperate from any other animals and nothing here has shown any signs (thank god) and she never did display any signs either.( I would never have sold her if I even remotely thought she was sick). Did she ever shed out completely? The only unusual thing about her was ,we had her here so long and as I said earlier, I was starting to try and fatten her up, although, that would not cause her to die perhaps she did not adjust well to the move. I truly am at a loss to say what happened. Even though I cannot say exactly what she died from, I am pretty sure it wasn't IBD. Do you have other boids around or near her that could have came in contact with her? IBD,as far as I know has to be spread by contact, like handling infected animals, sharing un eaten meals or water dishes or sharing an infected enclosure. As I said I don't really think that was it, judging by 46 years of being in this business and having seen cases of IBD first hand

sweatshirt · 06-09-13, 02:40 PM

Sorry to hear that Mikoh.

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-13, 03:09 PM

Hope to god it's not contagious and what happened to that vet visit?

I'd be frightened of this guy you spoke with since he said "in his experience with the disease." I would not ever buy something from someone who's had first hand experience with IBD.

Stay very far away from them at this point. Everyone should.

P.S. I doubt it was IBD though. Not the normal symptoms beforehand leading up to death.

Mikoh4792 · 06-09-13, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Hope to god it's not contagious and what happened to that vet visit?

I'd be frightened of this guy you spoke with since he said "in his experience with the disease." I would not ever buy something from someone who's had first hand experience with IBD.

Stay very far away from them at this point. Everyone should.

P.S. I doubt it was IBD though. Not the normal symptoms beforehand leading up to death.

I was planning on taking her to the vet if the regurgitation continued, as most people here suggested it was a temperature/thermoregulation issue. I was trying to see if her problems were caused/continued by an inadequate setup from the arboreal enclosure I gave her. I gave her about a week to settle down in a terrestrial enclosure before feeding her again so this way, she could get warm on the ground instead of having to climb up on a full stomach. Turns out, even using the warm hide on the ground she still regurgitated. It was too late, she died only minutes after throwing up the half-digested rat.

EDIT: are there other viruses that cause these symptoms?

KORBIN5895 · 06-09-13, 03:50 PM

Hmmm. Please pm the seller's name, business Name and contact info.

He is a liar and his email proves it. He claims he would never sell you a sick snake but he knew she wasn't healthy.

All of your snakes need to be quarantined for six months now because of the unknown death. Please don't introduce any knew snakes either. Also please don't visit any other herps like friends collections or pet stores.

You have a serious issue and I recommend a necropsy. I would dig her up and put her in a sealed bag then a sealed Tupperware in your fridge.

Caulkers should be able to eat a fairly good size meal so I think the breeder was full of it.

**Aaron_S** · 06-09-13, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I was planning on taking her to the vet if the regurgitation continued, as most people here suggested it was a temperature/thermoregulation issue. I was trying to see if her problems were caused/continued by an inadequate setup from the arboreal enclosure I gave her. I gave her about a week to settle down in a terrestrial enclosure before feeding her again so this way, she could get warm on the ground instead of having to climb up on a full stomach. Turns out, even using the warm hide on the ground she still regurgitated. It was too late, she died only minutes after throwing up the half-digested rat.

EDIT: are there other viruses that cause these symptoms?

I thought you said you took all your reptiles to the vet for a once over check up to ensure everything's okay?

You'd have to relate other symptoms since the one's right before death can be from a multitude of things. It's not a totally uncommon behaviour when an animal dies.

Mikoh4792 · 06-10-13, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I thought you said you took all your reptiles to the vet for a once over check up to ensure everything's okay?

You'd have to relate other symptoms since the one's right before death can be from a multitude of things. It's not a totally uncommon behaviour when an animal dies.

If you read what I said, I said I was going to take her to the vet, I just waited to see if it was something beyond thermoregulation.

And I don't think I ever typed in this forum that I took all my reptiles to the vet for a once over check up. If you can find where I said this I'd like to see.

marvelfreak · 06-10-13, 02:16 AM

As some with first hand experience with IBD i can tell you it does sound even close.
Years ago i got a boa that had it and because i didn't quarantine it wiped out my collection. First the Balls and Burmese's. Then the other boa's. The one that had it was the last one to die. With in a month they were all dead.

It would start with them getting like a kink in their body and then another. It was like their bodies looked like they started crapping up and they couldn't move with in a couple days they couldn't even rise their heads to get a drink of water. With in a week of showing the first signs they would be dead. It was slow and painful death. Your snake died to fast for it to be IBD IMO. What really sucked was back then i was doing good to fine a reptile vet let alone one who knew what IBD was. All i could do was when they started showing signs was take them and have them put down.

Did i learn from it all hell yes. QUARANTINE, QUARANTINE,and QUARANTINE! I now wash my hands plus use hand sanitizer between handling each snake. I keep all new snakes in a different room for at least three months. I keep records on all my snakes how often they eat, shed and poop.

Mikoh4792 · 06-10-13, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

As some with first hand experience with IBD i can tell you it does sound even close.
Years ago i got a boa that had it and because i didn't quarantine it wiped out my collection. First the Balls and Burmese's. Then the other boa's. The one that had it was the last one to die. With in a month they were all dead.

It would start with them getting like a kink in their body and then another. It was like their bodies looked like they started crapping up and they couldn't move with in a couple days they couldn't even rise their heads to get a drink of water. With in a week of showing the first signs they would be dead. It was slow and painful death. Your snake died to fast for it to be IBD IMO. What really sucked was back then i was doing good to fine a reptile vet let alone one who knew what IBD was. All i could do was when they started showing signs was take them and have them put down.

Did i learn from it all hell yes. QUARANTINE, QUARANTINE,and QUARANTINE! I now wash my hands plus use hand sanitizer between handling each snake. I keep all new snakes in a different room for at least three months. I keep records on all my snakes how often they eat, shed and poop.

Jesus Christ,your whole collection.. I would be devestated. Can IBD travel through the air?

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-13, 06:17 AM

Whole collections can be wiped out by more than just IBD. Quarantine is a must. ALWAYS. No excuses.

marvelfreak · 06-10-13, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Jesus Christ,your whole collection.. I would be devestated. Can IBD travel through the air?

I was devastated. I got out of snakes after that for almost 3 years. Then i was at a pet store and seen a Jungle carpet i just had to have. She turn 12 this year. I had her for almost 5.5 years before i even thought of getting another snake. First i researched and research some more. This time around i had the internet and i learn so much more about proper care, temps and so much more. Back when i started information was limited to reptile magazines and advice from pet store workers.

Has for being airborne it can mutate to become airborne so yes.