Monitors: Deserving of respect (xrays included) - Page 3

Pirarucu · 01-09-13, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

So there is no clear cut line. Thanks.

But that does make it strange that they can now classify monitors as venomous if that's the case. I see problems in buying and owning lizards in our future......

Depending on how you are defining it, you could classify almost anything as venomous. But yes, monitors certainly have more potent venom/saliva than others, and unfortunately it will probably raise some problems. Our strong point would be the argument that we can't be sure what the actual purpose of the venom is, and that the venom isn't potent enough to pose a serious threat to humans.

DragonsEye · 01-09-13, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

Venom is saliva. Venom glands are salivary glands, modified to produce saliva with a specific function. Truthfully it is a very blurred line. It could be argued that all saliva is venom.

I know this is somewhat straying off topic as your focus is discussion of venom in reptiles. However, as a general "definition" this could lead to misconceptions if applied across the board. So at the risk of being pedantic:

Venom is any poisonous fluid secreted by an animal which is injected/introduced into the body of another organism via biting or stinging. The venoms of many invertebrates, fish, and the platypus are nonsalivary based. While Pirarucu is spot on that the venom glands of snakes and lizards are modified salivary glands (and hence the arguement made that venom is saliva) I would have to disagree with the possible generalization that all saliva is venom.

varanus_mad · 01-10-13, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

The same study is saying iguanas are venomous too? What would be the purpose of that.....

Dna plus this vestigial venom glands have shown they share a common ancestor, we have vestigial organds so do they, may serve a purpose now or they may not , proteins are complicated things and do all sorts of wacky st, gilas venom used in developing a treatment for diabetes...

cool stuff...

Pirarucu · 01-10-13, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonsEye

I know this is somewhat straying off topic as your focus is discussion of venom in reptiles. However, as a general "definition" this could lead to misconceptions if applied across the board. So at the risk of being pedantic:

Venom is any poisonous fluid secreted by an animal which is injected/introduced into the body of another organism via biting or stinging. The venoms of many invertebrates, fish, and the platypus are nonsalivary based. While Pirarucu is spot on that the venom glands of snakes and lizards are modified salivary glands (and hence the arguement made that venom is saliva) I would have to disagree with the possible generalization that all saliva is venom.

I agree, I would not go so far as to say that all saliva is venom, just that the argument has been made before.

Jay · 01-10-13, 03:57 PM

Can't wait to see the X-rays.

dinosaurdammit · 01-10-13, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Can't wait to see the X-rays.

i pick them up tomorrow if you look at my boa thread the last few seconds i show off my hand.

AjaMichelle · 01-10-13, 09:50 PM

Why not on this thread?

dinosaurdammit · 01-10-13, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AjaMichelle

Why not on this thread?

Boa update 1:10:2013 - YouTube

at 8mins and 12 seconds is where i pull off the thumb brace and show off my war wound.

AjaMichelle · 01-10-13, 10:29 PM

Dude that's brutal!

Corey209 · 01-10-13, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

Boa update 1:10:2013 - YouTube

at 8mins and 12 seconds is where i pull off the thumb brace and show off my war wound.

My buddy messed up a ligament in one of his fingers by dropping a heavy weight on it and after surgery he did get movement back over time. I wish you luck with the recovery.

Gregg M · 01-12-13, 09:31 AM

To the OP,
next time you see a cut on your varanid, LEAVE IT ALONE! Varanids and all other repitles do not need antibiotic ointment. They heal very fast on their own. The injury you got from you sav bite is pretty common from that species. Varanus exanthimaicus have crushing bites. The majority of their teeth are very much like molars.

I was bitten by a huge (5 foot +) black throat a few years back. It broke 2 bones in my hand and dislocated my index finger at the middle joint. Very painful indeed. I have been bitten by numerous monitors over thr years but that was by far the worst. With the numerous bites I have endured, none have ever had any signs of envenoming.

As far as them being venomous goes, there are many animals that are considered venomous, however, being venomous does not mean it is dangerous.

Venom is NOT saliva. It is its own mixture of compounds. Also venom glands are NOT salivary glands. Their anatomy is completely different and so is their function.

So while varanids have venom glands their delivery system is piss poor and their bites are not medically significant as far as their toxicity. At least not in any of the species we keep in captivity. Komodos may be a different story as they are the only varanid that would need the venom to subdue prey.

dinosaurdammit · 01-12-13, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg M

To the OP,
next time you see a cut on your varanid, LEAVE IT ALONE! Varanids and all other repitles do not need antibiotic ointment. They heal very fast on their own. The injury you got from you sav bite is pretty common from that species. Varanus exanthimaicus have crushing bites. The majority of their teeth are very much like molars.

I was bitten by a huge (5 foot +) black throat a few years back. It broke 2 bones in my hand and dislocated my index finger at the middle joint. Very painful indeed. I have been bitten by numerous monitors over thr years but that was by far the worst. With the numerous bites I have endured, none have ever had any signs of envenoming.

As far as them being venomous goes, there are many animals that are considered venomous, however, being venomous does not mean it is dangerous.

Venom is NOT saliva. It is its own mixture of compounds. Also venom glands are NOT salivary glands. Their anatomy is completely different and so is their function.

So while varanids have venom glands their delivery system is piss poor and their bites are not medically significant as far as their toxicity. At least not in any of the species we keep in captivity. Komodos may be a different story as they are the only varanid that would need the venom to subdue prey.

i never even said anything about venom to my understanding.

Gregg M · 01-12-13, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

i never even said anything about venom to my understanding.

You didnt but it came up in the conversation.

dinosaurdammit · 01-12-13, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg M

You didnt but it came up in the conversation.

yes, i thought though you were directing the venom discussion at me. I honestly know nothing about monitor bites other than they hurt like all hell so I just backed down during the back and forth.

Gregg M · 01-12-13, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaurdammit

yes, i thought though you were directing the venom discussion at me. I honestly know nothing about monitor bites other than they hurt like all hell so I just backed down during the back and forth.

Nope, not directed at anyone. Just adding info to this informative thread. Hope your thumb gets better.