Feeding Questions

[MoreliAddict]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

So your saying there's not a risk of the snake getting injured then?! Unless its a problem feeder there's nothing to be gained from live feeding but there is a lot to be lost.

In a proper set up, the chances of "something happening" are very very slim.

Hopefully Mykee, who actually HAS lots of experience with live feeding will come by and clear this up...

[SnakeyJay]

Originally Posted by MoreliAddict

In a proper set up, the chances of "something happening" are very very slim.

Hopefully Mykee, who actually HAS lots of experience with live feeding will come by and clear this up...

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done... I'm saying it shouldn't be suggested as the best idea for a newb with their first snake... Of course it's possible to do, I just wouldn't do it myself unless needed.

[SnakeyJay]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

So what do you with snakes that try to eat themselves? or bite themselves while feeding?

This is what a snake can do by itself.. Not another animal. Like I said each to their own and live feeding has its place.. You and many others do it fine. But this is a young newb with her first snake.. she is obviously going to be upset if the snake gets hurt at all.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done... I'm saying it shouldn't be suggested as the best idea for a newb with their first snake... Of course it's possible to do, I just wouldn't do it myself unless needed.

I understand your personal situation, dually noted...

But I have to go back to this....Feeding live isn't that difficult. Setting the snake up properly isn't rocket science either (talking about starter species: BPs, corns, ratsnakes, kings, etc.).

So...if suggesting that the newb shouldn't not feed live because it's just too "hard," then maybe they really aren't ready to deal with having a pet reptile anyway. Because it sounds like (in this scenario anyway) the F/T method is a cop-out for less-than-ideal husbandry. I re-state what I said in my first post in this thread: healthy snakes kept in a proper environment should have no problems dealing with live prey. Doesn't matter if they're in a tub, a glass tank, or in the wild.

[SnakeyJay]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I understand your personal situation, dually noted...

But I have to go back to this....Feeding live isn't that difficult. Setting the snake up properly isn't rocket science either (talking about starter species: BPs, corns, ratsnakes, kings, etc.).

So...if suggesting that the newb shouldn't not feed live because it's just too "hard," then maybe they really aren't ready to deal with having a pet reptile anyway. Because it sounds like (in this scenario anyway) the F/T method is a cop-out for less-than-ideal husbandry. I re-state what I said in my first post in this thread: healthy snakes kept in a proper environment should have no problems dealing with live prey. Doesn't matter if they're in a tub, a glass tank, or in the wild.

It sounds like your saying that because I'm suggesting the frozen thawed I'm copping out on husbandry?... I hope your not as my 4 snakes get the best I can afford and more..

I believe in keeping a perfect environment for my snakes, but still choose frozen thawed anyway... I did not choose it because my husbandry is crap.

[StudentoReptile]

SNakey-Jay, as I said in my last post, I noted your personal situation. Don't take everything I say as a personal attack against you ("It's not all about you, ya know)

What I was referring to, was that by YOU saying we not suggest live feeding to the newb, we are inadvertently encouraging a cop-out. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay-BRB

But this is a young newb with her first snake.. she is obviously going to be upset if the snake gets hurt at all.

If she is doing everything right, her concerns are unwarranted. That is my entire point. Case-in-point below.

Originally Posted by MoreliAddict

In a proper set up, the chances of "something happening" are very very slim.

Originally Posted by rmfsnakes32

We feed all of ours live always have for years we supervise the feedings and our snakes are pefectly fine no scars scrapes or anything.

Believe me, I have had this discussion COUNTLESS times in several forums, and will undoubtedly have it again many more times in the future. This is not something for "experienced" or "advanced" keepers to "master." It's all about proper husbandry. I only cite statements from other experienced keepers to show the contrast.

Some of these people have been working with snakes for years, longer than I have been alive. They have put their hands on more snakes than I have even seen. I know some people like yourself have legitimate reasons for doing F/T, but most of the folks crying about rodents attacking their snakes are people who have not been keeping snakes very long (and/or as properly as they should) and are just regurgitating info they've heard from other inexperienced keepers. And like I said before, the relatively few "incidents" (compared to the countless successful, injury-free live feedings all over the world in captive collections) are results of keeper error. If you're doing things right, your snake probably stands a higher risk of you accidentally slamming the cage door on its head than it getting seriously injured by its food.

[SnakeyJay]

Fair enough... A good debate always gets good conversation when it's kept civil

[rmfsnakes32]

I have to agree with student here if you properly supervise feedings and be ready to remove the prey ( never had to do this) if needed all should be fine! They maybe captive bred but they still have wild animal survival instincts!

[StudentoReptile]

This is kind of another example...maybe, just maybe, it will bring the point home.

I have a buddy who was getting into tropical fish a couple years back. He used to come into the LPS I worked at to get advice from me, but would routinely get his fish from Petsmart. Why? PETsmART has a better return policy than we did; full-refund (our store only gave half store credit). However, we took much better care of our fish and boasted a greater variety and selection.

So his excuse was always "I can get all my money back if my fish die in 2 weeks."

My response was, "I take care of my fish, and they don't die. So I don't worry about refunds!"

Just for the record, against my advice, he set his tank up and was impatient, always overstocking it and too soon. Fish barely survived, and many died. My home tank did GREAT; never had a death due to my husbandry (had one jump out because the lid was open).
----------

Point of the story? I was more focused getting everything RIGHT before I even thought about putting fish in. My friend was more focused on the short-game, and recouping his losses in case something went wrong.

Wayne has even said it many times regarding monitor husbandry: if you get the habitat right, your animal will do fine. And that includes temps, humidity, substrate, etc.

[SnakeyJay]

Of course the environment is just as important as what and how you feed.. More so actually... I didn't realise I'd given the impression that this isn't paramount?.
I just believe in both for my own animals, short term care (immediate dangers that may be reasonably avoidable) and long term care (husbandry and further research)

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

[sigh....]
People rave about rats and mice biting and injuring their snake, but in nearly every case, it is error on the keeper's part. The rodent was left unattended. Wrong thing to do. Snake wasn't hungry?; well, why wasn't it hungry? Temps and habitat probably wasn't right. Either way, you shouldn't leave the prey in there unsupervised.

In my experience, a healthy snake will strike and grab the prey within a few minutes of being offered food. If that doesn't happen, its probably not going to eat at all. Either its in shed mode, or you're doing something wrong.

"Well, what if he strikes and grabs the rat wrong and it starts chewing on his neck?" So? Snakes have been grabbing their prey sideways, on the butt, by the spine, etc, for millions of years. Again, if they're healthy, and the habitat is set-up right with proper temps, they'd heal up fine. You can treat them with some antiseptic ointment to spead things along, but they'll be fine. Obviously, if the injury is serious, treat accordingly, but in my experience, when I have had a snake suffer a bite from a rodent during a ill-aimed feeding strike-n-coil, it was never anything serious. Again, if you have a healthy snake and you're doing things right, you should have little to worry about.



I disagree. See above comments. Live prey = fresh meat = healthier food in my book. And I take care of my snakes well enough so that when I put a live rodent in front of them, they eat it.

Frozen/prekilled feeding does have its merits, but if you do things right, feeding live is not the hazardous risky endeavor a lot of ignorant whiners claim it is.

as far as i can find out there is nothing to say,frozen prey is any LESS nutritional than live mate

also why risk a snake being bitten by prey,regardless of whether the bite will heal ok or not,why risk a snake being bitten in the first place ?

also who would want a snake with scar tissue from old prey bites

imo NO matter how supervised a snake is,a keeper will NEVER be fast enough to stop prey biting the snake,should it decide to do so,its all over in under a second

for the record i have NO moral issues with people feeding live,i just don't see the point in putting a snake at risk

re whiners
the only time i'm a whiner,is when i'm not feeling well,as all men are

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by rmfsnakes32

I have to agree with student here if you properly supervise feedings and be ready to remove the prey ( never had to do this) if needed all should be fine! They maybe captive bred but they still have wild animal survival instincts!

imo theres no way anyone,would be fast enough to stop a rat biting the snake,should the snake grab the rat by the as*,ribs,etc

you would need to get your hand in and grab the rat in under a second,not even Bruce Lee was that quick mate

cheers shaun

[Snakefood]

LOL Shaun, dont get me started on men with colds and flu's!! LOL!!

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Snakefood

LOL Shaun, dont get me started on men with colds and flu's!! LOL!!

when us men get the cold.....

we are dying...

when we have the flu we're on deaths door

cheers shaun

P.S.and we need good women,to fill us hot bottles,change the tv channel,plump our pillows,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,

[Snakefood]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

when us men get the cold.....

we are dying...

when we have the flu we're on deaths door

cheers shaun

P.S.and we need good women,to fill us hot bottles,change the tv channel,plump our pillows,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,

Yes shaun, we "good women" do know that!!! and as much as we bitch about it, it's nice to be needed, but could you need us silently???