memory

[iBaman]

daw, thanks jaleely =] I love baman piderman...it's so dumb it's funny xD

[Jay]

Originally Posted by iBaman

...my snake is bigger ;D bahahhaah. I was really just messing with you, btw. dunno if you caught the sarcasm or not. hard to portray over the interwebs.

I know xD, sorry.

[jarich]

Originally Posted by jaleely

jarich, after 16 years on the internet you're the most well spoken and well written person i've ever read! I always enjoy when you post.

Kaetlinv you too, are doing a great job of taking the high road consistently. I think that's really awesome.

ibaman you're on my good list too...hehe plus i thought baman an piderman was pretty cute.

Thanks Melissa, though I had a much less composed message before realizing the thread had just degraded into a couple of trolls throwing around sarcasm. Which is a shame, as this could have been an interesting discussion. Oh well, thats the internet sometimes.

[snake man12]

Originally Posted by jarich

Shocking given your understanding of neurobiology.

Really what happened was I lost interest in bio and med and I couldn't handle having a career [even if it was a good one] that I could not stand to be in.
[shrugs]

[Kaetlinv]

Originally Posted by jaleely

jarich, after 16 years on the internet you're the most well spoken and well written person i've ever read! I always enjoy when you post.

Kaetlinv you too, are doing a great job of taking the high road consistently. I think that's really awesome.

ibaman you're on my good list too...hehe plus i thought baman an piderman was pretty cute.

Well. Ive been on the internet for much longer than i ever shouldve been (yay 9 year old on a computer!!) And ive had my fair share of social games on said internet. While im not the most eloquent person out there, i certainly try to speak clearly and (as well informed as i can) intelligently. All of this being brewed from the sheer stupidity of some adults and young kids both on those games. I was mistaken on a regular basis for being two, sometimes three times older than i actually was. >.>

[BryanB]

Well I have enjoyed reading every ones OPINIONS about snakes having memory or not. I never expected it to be a 7 page debate but hey a lot of good thoughts as to why people think yes or no. As for me I believe they have capability to see patterns (feeding place-times for example) and basic survival "thought" as in "I am cold I will go bask in the heat" and "have not bean harmed by people before their fore i will tolerate them"

[allenj3210]

On the issue of snake memory and conditioning, I believe that an animal must have some form of cognitive skills, albeit simple ones. I believe that it is quite possible for them to adapt to certain stimulus over time and frequency. For example feeding tongs= food. But as others have mentioned the notion that these creatures are mostly instinctually based seems a little troubling. I think that these animals are hardwired for survival and will do what ever it takes to survive to their environment. If that takes pattern recognition then that's what they will do.

[moshirimon]

Originally Posted by allenj3210

On the issue of snake memory and conditioning, I believe that an animal must have some form of cognitive skills, albeit simple ones. I believe that it is quite possible for them to adapt to certain stimulus over time and frequency. For example feeding tongs= food. But as others have mentioned the notion that these creatures are mostly instinctually based seems a little troubling. I think that these animals are hardwired for survival and will do what ever it takes to survive to their environment. If that takes pattern recognition then that's what they will do.

Well said.

[Pareeeee]

Originally Posted by allenj3210

On the issue of snake memory and conditioning, I believe that an animal must have some form of cognitive skills, albeit simple ones. I believe that it is quite possible for them to adapt to certain stimulus over time and frequency. For example feeding tongs= food. But as others have mentioned the notion that these creatures are mostly instinctually based seems a little troubling. I think that these animals are hardwired for survival and will do what ever it takes to survive to their environment. If that takes pattern recognition then that's what they will do.

Very true.

[jarich]

And while we are at it, let me throw in a hypothesis I have in regards to this thread.

Im not a fan of rack systems for snakes, mostly because I like to have more room for them and I like to be able to see them. I do also think its a limiting factor in their development though. Without the ability to see out of the tubs, interact with the world outside their enclosure, or have any challenges/stresses at all, they have zero stimulus in their environment. Therefore the parts of their brain that would normally be involved in reactionary and adaptative processes are selected against. The brain is an expensive organ in any animal, so if its not being used, it gets culled at an early stage of development. Essentially, I think that its possible that by raising these snakes in opaque smalls tubs, they physiologically become unable to deal with new stresses and situations because as adults their brains are simply not adapted to. Again, its just a hypothesis, but Id love to hear your thoughts on it.

[Wildside]

Originally Posted by jarich

And while we are at it, let me throw in a hypothesis I have in regards to this thread.

Im not a fan of rack systems for snakes, mostly because I like to have more room for them and I like to be able to see them. I do also think its a limiting factor in their development though. Without the ability to see out of the tubs, interact with the world outside their enclosure, or have any challenges/stresses at all, they have zero stimulus in their environment. Therefore the parts of their brain that would normally be involved in reactionary and adaptative processes are selected against. The brain is an expensive organ in any animal, so if its not being used, it gets culled at an early stage of development. Essentially, I think that its possible that by raising these snakes in opaque smalls tubs, they physiologically become unable to deal with new stresses and situations because as adults their brains are simply not adapted to. Again, its just a hypothesis, but Id love to hear your thoughts on it.

I disagree. I've known a few snakes that were raised in "an environment" and were then happier once moved into a tub. It's like they have their own little space to protect and that's where they want to be. I can't say that I blame them. Being an instinctive/reclusive animal myself I'd be thrilled if I got to sit all safe in my little space and have all my needs catered to, with little threat from a predator and possibly a mate to breed when the need arose.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by snake man12

They have almost no memory only instinctual response to stimuli.

i disagree.....

when a snake finds the means of escaping its enclosure,it will go right back to it the next night,if you have NOT blocked its escape route

the above has been my personal experience with carpets

does this not show memory of where the escape route is

the above is just my thinking on your post mate

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by jarich

And while we are at it, let me throw in a hypothesis I have in regards to this thread.

Im not a fan of rack systems for snakes, mostly because I like to have more room for them and I like to be able to see them. I do also think its a limiting factor in their development though. Without the ability to see out of the tubs, interact with the world outside their enclosure, or have any challenges/stresses at all, they have zero stimulus in their environment. Therefore the parts of their brain that would normally be involved in reactionary and adaptative processes are selected against. The brain is an expensive organ in any animal, so if its not being used, it gets culled at an early stage of development. Essentially, I think that its possible that by raising these snakes in opaque smalls tubs, they physiologically become unable to deal with new stresses and situations because as adults their brains are simply not adapted to. Again, its just a hypothesis, but Id love to hear your thoughts on it.

i hear what your saying mate

if you raised a hatchling straight out the egg in the rack you describe,then.....

as an adult put it in say a vision cage with a glass front,would its new ability to see the outside world stress it out ?

i'm thinking it would be stressed,but... (but i'm applying a human thought process i suppose,so a snake may well not give a crap)

until someone conducts an experiment,i'm thinking we'll never know

great point to bring up though mate

cheers shaun

[jarich]

Ya, totally just a thought I wanted to see others opinions on. I dont think it would affect things much on adults but straight from the egg might.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by jarich

Ya, totally just a thought I wanted to see others opinions on. I dont think it would affect things much on adults but straight from the egg might.

i rescued a Jungle Carpet once.....

the guy had kept it in,a carboard shoe box with it's lid on,so the Jungle was ALWAYS in the dark 24/7.....

the guy ONLY opened the box QUICKLY,to fling a prey item inside the shoe box...

this Jungle was the MOST defensive biter i've EVER come across,we called him Mad Bert,he was like a bloody machine gun,just struck out at ALL signs of movement

i tried working with him for over a year and he NEVER calmed down one bit

so maybe it turns them into nervous,defensive biters ?

cheers shaun