Wild caught for pet shops, a tragedy? - Page 2

snake man12 · 06-23-12, 07:54 AM

I support wild caught for the reason that if the species of snake such as hog island boa was taken it could jump start the population if the snakes were released back into the native population. We know this works because it happened with the hog island boa. I don't support the wild caught for pet shops at all , it's terrible.

So I walked into the pet store to buy some cypress mulch and I looked at the snakes in particular the bp's and they were on paper towels and the towels were covered in mites that were moving ahhhhhh. Also I saw might's or ticks or something around there eyes. And when I saw this I just calmly walked out of the store, I just thought I am not gunna get my snakes infested because of improper care of the pet store animals.

stevenrudge · 06-23-12, 08:22 AM

l understand some of the strong responses against W/C reps,and l mostly agree,but do you not see the irony in some of your replys?your American hobbyists keeping, Australian, African,snakes,how do you think you got your pets?Ok in an ideal world by now we should not need any W/C any more but the reality is that with some species we do,
its totally personal choice,but to have a total aversion to W/C rep's on any morel argument whilst keeping exotic pets do's not make sense

exwizard · 06-23-12, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

l understand some of the strong responses against W/C reps,and l mostly agree,but do you not see the irony in some of your replys?your American hobbyists keeping, Australian, African,snakes,how do you think you got your pets?Ok in an ideal world by now we should not need any W/C any more but the reality is that with some species we do,
its totally personal choice,but to have a total aversion to W/C rep's on any morel argument whilst keeping exotic pets do's not make sense

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that all my snakes are cbb. It is possible to have cbb snakes and a wide variety of what you have.

jaleely · 06-23-12, 03:20 PM

steven, i would be perfectly happy not having austrialian and african snakes. My point exactly is that the ones i do have, mostly, were given up by other people who got them and then got rid of them. I only have most of them because of how many irresponsible people there are out there, willy nilly buying pets.
if there was more crack down on the average joe being able to buy snakes, there wouldn't be so many needing homes, and then it *would* be easier to focus on breeding project for a select few people to import, and use that opportunity to build up populations to release back in the wild....but let's be honest, that's never going to happen except in a few rare instances.
If people are going to import, they are going to do it to have a show animal, or to breed and try to make money.

marvelfreak · 06-24-12, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

I would never buy wild caught.

I want to clarify why i wouldn't buy wild caught. I bought a possible wild caught boa years ago. The guy at the pet store wasn't sure which boas were CB and which were WC. Well it turn out it had IBD and it wiped out my entire collection. I would never again risk the safety of the snakes i already own. I would go without rather than buy a WC. That's just me.

Do WC have a place in the reptile business? Most diffidently. With out them we wouldn't have the CB snake that are readily available now days. They find new morph all the time, but at the same time something need to be do to replace what is being taking from the wild. If it wasn't for WC and pet store reptiles wouldn't be so easy to obtain and most of us would own them ,or even be on a snake site having this debate. So as much as we might not like it it serves a purpose.

exwizard · 06-24-12, 09:01 AM

You have very good reason not to have WC. There are many other reasons as well. Even though I know that without the current pet trade getting its start from WC or even CH, the fact remains that there are plenty of CBB snakes to choose from now and that WC is not necessary anymore. For me its not a moral issue. Its more that the CBB snakes tend to be healthier and more "bug" free. I have 18 snakes now that range in my cost from $30 to $300 each. I will not risk the lives or the livelihood just to get a WC snake that is not known to be CBB or cant be found in any other way. Its not worth it to me. Id rather do without any more additions. As far as Im concerned there is no debate; not now, not ever.

stevenrudge · 06-24-12, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exwizard

You have very good reason not to have WC. There are many other reasons as well. Even though I know that without the current pet trade getting its start from WC or even CH, the fact remains that there are plenty of CBB snakes to choose from now and that WC is not necessary anymore. For me its not a moral issue. Its more that the CBB snakes tend to be healthier and more "bug" free. I have 18 snakes now that range in my cost from $30 to $300 each. I will not risk the lives or the livelihood just to get a WC snake that is not known to be CBB or cant be found in any other way. Its not worth it to me. Id rather do without any more additions. As far as Im concerned there is no debate; not now, not ever.

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

Snakefood · 06-24-12, 12:01 PM

Just an insert here.......

The Palmetto line in Cornsnakes was started from a WC male, without that male being caught and bred, we would not have that beautiful morph coming into our hobby.

Also, someone here had mentioned that the breeders focusing on morphs are breeding out the "true bloodlines", this makes no sense at all, the morphs are there, in the wild. They just tend not to survive to breeding age because they are too easy to see by thier predators, it's not like breeders are genetically altering the "true" bloodlines!!

exwizard · 06-24-12, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

My original point acknowledges the WC origins of our hobby. That being said, I still point out that there are a lot of CBB snakes out there to choose from. Continuing to catch wild snakes when the availability is what it is, is pointless and only further drains our resources. You did mention that there are certain snakes that are not as available yet and I do understand that. I just dont want to see WC or CH snakes continue to be taken out of the wild in perpetuity, but who am I? Im just a small time hobbyist with 18 CBB snakes that are my pets. Nobody important. All Im doing is expressing my opinions.
One more thing, you repeated the moral issue vs keeping exotic pets dilemma. I will repeat as well. This is NOT nor will it ever be a moral issue for me. Its the health and safety of my current snakes that drives me to take the stance that I do. The other stuff is secondary for me.

StudentoReptile · 06-24-12, 02:24 PM

I had some interesting thoughts on this over the weekend. I'll share them sometime tomorrow when I can really sit down and write them out (on a laptop at the moment).

stevenrudge · 06-24-12, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exwizard

My original point acknowledges the WC origins of our hobby. That being said, I still point out that there are a lot of CBB snakes out there to choose from. Continuing to catch wild snakes when the availability is what it is, is pointless and only further drains our resources. You did mention that there are certain snakes that are not as available yet and I do understand that. I just dont want to see WC or CH snakes continue to be taken out of the wild in perpetuity, but who am I? Im just a small time hobbyist with 18 CBB snakes that are my pets. Nobody important. All Im doing is expressing my opinions.
One more thing, you repeated the moral issue vs keeping exotic pets dilemma. I will repeat as well. This is NOT nor will it ever be a moral issue for me. Its the health and safety of my current snakes that drives me to take the stance that I do. The other stuff is secondary for me.

Please be assured l was not talking about you with regard to any morel issues about this topic,but some people do bring a holyer than thou attitude with this,and l was trying to show that as we are exotic rep pet keepers that stance is unsustainable

exwizard · 06-24-12, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

Please be assured l was not talking about you with regard to any morel issues about this topic,but some people do bring a holyer than thou attitude with this,and l was trying to show that as we are exotic rep pet keepers that stance is unsustainable

I understand. No worries.

jaleely · 06-24-12, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenrudge

That fine its not for you and you give valid reasons for your stance,but the fact remains that nobody would have any reps if none were ever taken captive in the past,So l find it strange when people start to make a morel stance about exotic captive pets,which we only have because of past W/C caught reps and l'm not talking about established rep species already in abundance in captivity,thats pointless,l'm talking about some species that need a lot more work, like Mangrove Snakes

Darn right i'm holier than thou.
ANd i wouldn't have reptiles if they'd never been taken out of the wild. that's a sure as the sky is blue.
i wouldn't need to have most of the ones i have, either, if people weren't constantly importing them, breeding them willy nilly, then giving them up and trading them in so they can buy more, or getting tired of them. If they were rare, select, and expensive, than less people would be interested in them, less people would be buying them, and there *would* be a higher liklihood that the ones that did spend the money and time and effort (if it was difficult) to get them, would keep them, and house them in a responsible manner.

Yup i own snakes. No, i do not think think they should be readilly available to anyone. No i do not think they they should be imported at all, and no, i do not think think that 95% of the breeding projects out there are helpful to the species.
Heck yes i'm a hypocrite. I own exotic snakes. Knowing what i do now, however, i do not support the pet trade. I enjoy, love, and take emense pleasure in my snakes.
If someone wants that experience, as it stands now, go to the pound and pick up one.
Until they are more heavily regulated, there will continue to be horrible breeders (and there are a lot of them), bad conditions, animal neglect, abuse, and giving up. Why go catch more WILD snakes, when there are so many sitting around for free, or at bad homes, and people don't even want them anymore?

I still stand on saying if you want a wild caught snake, you are doing it for selfish reasons. Sorry if you don't like to read that, and it's not even derogatory, it's just a fact. The WC support is the one wanting a specific breed or snake. If the WC supporter just wanted a pet, he would go adopt one.

snake man12 · 06-24-12, 04:02 PM

Government regulation will do absolutely nothing, in fact it may increase peoples desire to have them. If you think we have have selfish reasons for owning our snakes please re-read the above post

exwizard · 06-24-12, 04:44 PM

Put a cross in front of the idea of heavier government regulations! As I said earlier, thats the last thing we need! Sorry to put that in such strong terms but that is one thinbg I feel that strongly about. Government only screws things up. Plain and simple. The unintended consequences of such a thing is unimaginable!
Melissa, I understand your position and why and agree with just about all of it. I just think that there are better ways to accomplish this than get the government even more involved than it already is. There are so many politicians who are just waiting for that chance; even salivating at it because it provides them with an issue that involves emotion to help get them reelected. Ugh! If they had their way, I wouldnt be able to have any snakes at all, even Corns or BPs!