snakes intelligence

Damion930 · 03-23-11, 12:28 AM

So I post this in another thread but felt it should have its own spot. I thought it was very interesting and wanted to share with everyone not just those reading the thread. Snakes Show Surprising Capacity for Learning

candyraver69 · 03-23-11, 01:13 AM

cool article, thank you for sharing it!

Snakes really are experts at escaping, haha.

NennaMeerkat · 03-23-11, 01:57 AM

Not sure I understood a lot of what I read (it is nearly 3am here) but it was interesting to read all the same. Though it doesn't surprise me that snakes are smarter than we thought...heck goldfish can be taught tricks that reward them with food.

Damion930 · 03-23-11, 02:20 AM

I've ben doing a lot of reading on animal intelect and how our ideas on it are changing in the scientific world it seems that ther brain size and parts we think we understand arnt a very good judge of how smart a creature can be. A fairly recent study of a parrot showed that they can actually communicate with the words they learn if taught properly and not just mimic us. They could actualy do basic mathematics. Even though they have small relatively undeveloped brains. Domestic dogs have shown evolutionary development in communication with humans in comparison to wild dogs purdy neat stuff. They arnt just meat robots after all lol.

Damion930 · 03-23-11, 12:06 PM

Any more links to snake intelligence would be awesome

mykee · 03-23-11, 01:11 PM

After reading that article: Quack science.

Damion930 · 03-23-11, 04:54 PM

Lol knew you would have somthing to say Mykee. Would you care to alaberate on your thoughts do you have anything to back up your opinion.

mykee · 03-23-11, 07:43 PM

Lol.
Nope, but maybe I'll elaborate.
I'll spend as little time rebutting this "study" by this "doctor" as I can, because I believe it's a waste of everyone's time. So here we go; Among other things, the study said it threw a snake into a kiddie pool and it "found" the opening. Intelligence; nope. Snakes "find" things by determining differences in heat. Chances are the opening was a different temp from the rest of the kiddie pool.
For the uneducated masses who are unfamiliar with the anatomy of a snake, they foolhardedly believe that snakes are smart and used their developed brain to find the opening. Smart snakes, eh?
Nope.
For those of us who have taken the time to familiarize ourselves with the species we keep and learn about them, know that's not the case.

As for my "opinion" I can certainly back it up with a fact (since facts are new to this thread, I'll type s-l-o-w-l-y-):
Again:
A snakes brain is very similar to a bird's brain but the snakes brain LACKS the enlarged cerebral hemispheres found in birds and mammals. The cerebral hemispheres are the part of the brain which contains the ability to learn.
LACKS.
Without.
Does not have.
Inability to learn.
Can't learn without a chunk of brain that snakes DON'T have.
Simple, non?
Certainly doesn't carry the same cache as some quack's kiddie pool experiment, but it'll have to do.

blindfireak40 · 03-23-11, 09:44 PM

Just as a question, Mykee, how is it that ball pythons are such stubborn feeders once they're started on mice? Why is it possible at all to switch them to rats? If they are incapable of learning, it follows that they are incapable of adaptation or conditioning.

Based especially on the heat argument, they SHOULD go exclusively for a properly sized heat signature, constrict, and then swallow. Shouldn't make a difference at all what it is. At least as far as I can see, but I know far less. Your thoughts?

Damion930 · 03-23-11, 09:55 PM

Lol you crack me up he's a neroscientist from rochester lol and snakes do not lack any part of the brain for learning. Ther emotional network is just quite small ther logic platform is quite large in comparison and the part of ther brain responsible for memory continualy renews brain cells. Cognitive research also shows they have the ability to learn and adapt to changing environments. The study you belive is quack science has ben done several times and the scientific comunity has exepted the results. The study was not just a kiddy pool with one hole ther wher multiple options only one offering an escape and it was changed for different snakes and some wher given color cues of wich they could respond to. The color cue being moved to different exits resulting in the snake exiting at increased speed with theis cues. Studys have also ben proven yes proven that the physical make up of cerebral out put does not fully contribute to behavior or intellect a lot of "older" studys saw chemical release as a sign of brain function or the cause of but now is attributed to effect and after effect. But you might be right what do a bunch of nerobiologists and cognitive biologists know about brain function lol.

mykee · 03-24-11, 09:06 AM

Quote:

"The study was not just a kiddy pool with one hole there where (were?) multiple options only one offering an escape and it was changed for different snakes and some where given color cues of which they could respond to. The color cue being moved to different exits resulting in the snake exiting at increased speed with theis (these? This?)cues."

Lol!
Snakes don't see in colour.
Read a book.

Damion930 · 03-24-11, 10:01 AM

Read a new book because your very wrong not all but most can. Some have a limited spectrum while others can see color very vividly your info is out dated.

marvelfreak · 03-24-11, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion930

Read a new book because your very wrong not all but most can. Some have a limited spectrum while others can see color very vividly your info is out dated.

If a snake has no way to communicate what colors or lack of colors it see then how would anyone know for sure? It all just theory. Where's your proof?

presspirate · 03-24-11, 12:35 PM

I think you can ask 100 people, get 100 responses and the only one that could tell for sure is the snake.

Damion930 · 03-24-11, 12:53 PM

Ok ok I fully agree with that that's why you guys rock so biologicaly some not all have the propertys as far as we know are used for seeing color. Wells who is the precursor to most info on the subject from 1942 only studied one family of snake and ther are over 40 optic variations in snakes.