Talk About... Quarantine Practices!

[Classic]

Great info all. Some very interesting methods of quarantine.
I think some people go to the extream but there is nothing wrong with being too careful. My main concern with any new acquisition is the source. If i know the person is clean and reliable, i'll be a little more lax with my quar. If i dont trust the person or i am not sure, i usually pass on the purchase. I keep a close eye on my animals and i keep strict records for reference. Although i have done it, i dispise buying a snake that has no history records showing where and who its been with.
One thing i am guilty of is not washing my hands between handling different snakes in my collection. I feel there is not much point, especially if they are housed in the same rack or even room.

One question i do have to you folks that are fortunate enough to have multiple rooms. Do you seal the entrances and doorways to each room with a weather strip? Mites travel in search of a host. I'm unsure of the total life-cycle but can they not live for awhile without food? If this is the case, isn't there a pretty good chance that mites can travel from one room to another, even muliple floors? Just a thought. It would certainly put all your efforts at risk.

By the way, you all are doing a great job with your efforts to keep your collections as safe as possible. Keep up the good work and keep promoting these informative threads. They are great for all the nubs.

Brian
HighWaterHerps

[Scales Zoo]

I have never had many mites ever spread to other levels of quarantine. The goal here, is to never have infestations, to kill all of any mites on any new snakes. If you see more mites, treat everything, kill all mites.

To be honest, I see 1 mite on any snake that has been at my house for more than a week, all snakes get nixed, including the ones at the other building. If there are mites on a snake, and it gets nixed, you'll see them come to the surface.

We also put flea and tick powder near doorways of quarantine rooms, when aquisitions are questionable, to kill any travelling mites. We, now, don't have many new aquistions, and very few questionable ones. I've learned to be very careful on what I will buy.

Air born diseases, I don't worry much about. Snakes in racks are a bit close, but room to room is another story.

Also, another story, is the direct contact method of transmition - aka, not washing hands between snakes. That can spread bacteria and disease like wildfire, wash your hands!

Ryan

[Tim_Cranwill]

Brian, I agree with you concerning the hand washing. I think it’s a bit of overkill, personally. I see why people do it, but I don't believe it makes much of a difference. 95% of my snakes are within 10ft of each other. I simply do not see it being a huge issue, especially with established animals.

It's kind of like when people have babies. The baby's brothers and sisters can come and go but no cousins, neighbor’s kids and etc can visit in the hospital. Animals in close quarters likely carry the same stuff (bugs, bio-burden and etc) just as humans usually do.

I am a bit envious of you guys with STRICT quarantine though.

[CDN-Cresties]

Okay forgive me for this very dumb question but how to mites travel? I have never seen one so Im a bit lost here.
Thanks

[Linds]

Tim,
I wouldn't really compare it to a family living in the same quarters. Families share the same dishes, furniture, cleaning stuff, etc., whereas snakes (well at least mine) share nothing except the air around them. I believe my animals are 100% protected against anything that isn't airborne. If I had to compare it to people, I would compare it more to an apartment building, with each person having their own unit.

Originally posted by CDN-Cresties
Okay forgive me for this very dumb question but how to mites travel? I have never seen one so Im a bit lost here.

They walk

[CDN-Cresties]

LOL thanks, they can walk but can they climb the sides of rubbermaids?

[Classic]

I also agree Tim. I wish i could accomidate multi-quar rooms.

Thanks for responding with that info Ryan. I know very little about mites. I know how to get rid of them if need be but i have not had to put into practice luckily. knock knock.



Brian
highWaterHerps

[Linds]

Basically anyone who practices no attempts to 'quarantine' animals at any level, I would definitely treat any potential animals purchased as the equivalent risk of a pet store purchase, and definitely give second thought to that person's credibility (and I know I'm not the only person that feels that way). I tend to buy whatever I like as long as it appears to be in decent condition, but for those people that are more picky with the background of their animals, I would assume it would be a definite deterrant if they found out the person they were buying their animals from treated them in such a communal fashion. Everything but airborne disease can be prevented through seperation (housing, supplies, etc.), and as we all know, airborne disease is the least common affliction of captive reptiles. Basically what I'm trying to say is, what one does with their own animals is their business, but when they make their business open to the public, it becomes the public's business as well

Originally posted by CDN-Cresties
LOL thanks, they can walk but can they climb the sides of rubbermaids?

Although I've never actually seen one on the side of a rubbermaid, I would assume they have no problems climbing them. They always manage to get in there, even without a keeper's assistance, so... ?

[damzookeeper]

o.k. So, I have read about the nix solution, and I think that is an awesome idea to use after shows and with any new animals coming it. But can it be used on all reptiles or just snakes and similar scaled animals like skinks? Would it be harmful to geckos (leos, cresteds ect.) or bearded dragons, frilled dragons? I take these guys to shows more than anything else. And what about turtles? When we get turtles should we just quarenteen or can the nix be used on them as well?


Also, I've read a bit about mites and ticks in my book "understanding reptile parasites" and it says mice and prey should also be checked. Can a reptile get mites from live mice and are they snake mites or other type of mites? What do mites look like? Any bug in my reptile enclosures would scare the bageebers out of me. lol, but I've never seen mites before so I'm curious? Do they look like plant mites? Can other animals in the house contract them, dogs, cats, birds, ect...

Do they only get mites from other reptiles that have them or a person bringing them in or can they get them from mice, crickets, or other sources like bedding and such.

Thanks for all the info, this is really educational for me.


oh ya, and another first aid tip I remember. A couple years ago one of my bearded dragons got a small eye infection from sand in the enclosure. I used polysporin for the outer eye on it for a couple weeks (put it on every other day) and had her in a cage with newsprint and it cleared up in no time.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Originally posted by Linds
Basically anyone who practices no attempts to 'quarantine' animals at any level, I would definitely treat any potential animals purchased as the equivalent risk of a pet store purchase, and definitely give second thought to that person's credibility (and I know I'm not the only person that feels that way).

Now THAT'S an insult. I challenge you to find a dirty animal in my collection OR one I've sold. Meanwhile "upstanding" members have sold me (and others I know) mites and RIs... so who's got the "pet store" risks attached to them after all? What's not here is not here.

I inspect animals carefully and I'm equally as careful about who I buy from (more and more all the time). I'm just not blind to the fact that "hap-hazard" methods aren't <b>much</b> better than no methods.

To have a proper and true quarantine process, you would need:

- Sterile instruments
- Sterile environments (10'000 (7) rating or better)
- A <u>clean</u> set of clothes for each animal (scientifically clean, not detergent clean)
- No carpet in your snake rooms or fabric furniture of any type
- Stainless steal surfaces and cleanable floors
- Latex gloves
- Alcohol foam for gloves
- Disposable shoe/foot covers
- Hair nets
- Hepa-filters - not the kinds you can buy at Wal-Mart
- A rigid cleaning and sanitizing schedule (switching between two cleaning solutions on a month to month basis)
- Several air-sealed rooms
- Air sampling machines and environmental monitoring tools

And that's not even getting into what should and shouldn't be in the enclosure and what your enclosures should and shouldn't be made of.

Now, unless you have all of that in place, I don't think YOUR quarantine is worth much more than mine. I'm sorry but bugs and germs will travel. Believe me. Drug manufacturers spend <b>thousands</b> of dollars a week ensuring that "bugs" don't exist in their facility. I hardly think washing your hands with soap up to your shoulders can compare to that and if YOU do, you're fooling yourself.

Do what you can, no doubt about that. And do what makes you feel comfortable but don't fool yourself into believing that you have a proper quarantine system in place, because you don't. And don't try to make me look like a pet shop, because I'm NOT.

[Linds]

I'm sorry you find my views insulting Tim, as it was truly not meant to be so. It is how I feel. Just because everything cannot be done 100%, doesn't mean that we shouldn't still do what we can to help minimize risk. I honestly cannot fathom why people (I'm not singling you out, this is a general statement towards people that practice no protection measures) would take such risks with their animals, as in my mind and experiences, it is quite dangerous, and it does make me wonder if they cut out on such simple control methods, what other husbandry factors may be skipped as well. In my experiences, as well as veterinary studies, I know that the best inspection in all the world is not sufficient means of prevention and diagnosis.Some this remain well hidden for even months before surfacing. If you had read my post, you would have seen that I never claimed to have a *true* quarantine setup (nor did anyone that has participated in this thread), and you would be hardpressed to find anyone that does, but I do take aas many protection measures as within my powers to ensure my animals the highest level of protection I can provide. I would rather minimize the risk than throw it all out the window, some is DEFINITELY better than none, I'm sorry you do not agree with that. Yes, I'm aware bacteria travels, but through a clean system, you will no doubt prevent it to an extent. By your theory, it would be fine around sharing drinks and having sleeping with anyone that we cross paths with based upon appearance without expecting to get sick eventually ... I just cannot see that point of view, or why anyone wouldn't want to do *the most they can* in terms preventative measures. Again, sorry you found my opinion to be so insulting, it is what I feel though.

[Classic]

Linds, You cant insult other peoples practices.
Does that "SuperModerator" title mean anything? I also vouch for my entire collection. I have nothing but healthy animals. I keep all my snakes in a 10' by 10' room enclosed in racks. I know all my snakes are clean. In my situation, i feel washing my hands in between individules is redundant. Who are you to say i'm dirty in a public form. I am happy that you can be so thorough but maybe you take it to an unusually high and unnecessary level?

Brian
HighWaterHerps

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't understand the point that if you can't fully quarantine by an artificially-set protocol that you shouldn't have ANY quarantine methods at all. That doesn't make sense.

Let's think hypothetically and little see:

Say we have 5 steps of quarantining ranging from 1 (the lowest level/safety) to 5 (complete sterility). What if 90% of the nasties for snakes are killed before you hit "level 3" of quarantining? Just because you don't get to level 5, then you should bother at all? HUH??? But even if you did the small stuff, you'd catch the majority of problems that could harm your collection? But when you're of the attitude that its all or nothing, you won't see the benefits of the first 3 levels.

Of course this is all hypothetical, but it has its practices.

Let me ask the people who said "why bother quarantining if you can't do it 100%" a question, please:

If you had a snake with KNOWN mites on it, would you NIX it and put it in your snake rack? Or would you NIX it, and then put it on a sunbeam heat pad in your room or in the living room or bathroom until you cleared it up? Most would do the latter. But THAT is quarantining! That is a leve, albeit small, of getting a new acquisition clean. So if you said "why bother", yet you wouldn't put a KNOWN mite-infested snake in your rack, then you are what people call a hypocrite.

[Jeff_Favelle]

And on another note, its YOUR collection, so do what you want. Fully. NO ONE can tell you differently. But keep in mind, the industry is COMPETITIVE. There's a LOT of people producing a LOT of animals. So when all other factors are equal, its going to a feather in your cap to be known for good husbandry and quarantining practices than to not be. There's going to be people offering the exact SAME animals at the exact SAME prices as you. What's going to separate you from the next joe-shmoe?

Not talking to anyone in particular, just laying down my thoughts. Here, I don't quarantine for 6 months, but I do for about 2 months. Unless I'm buying from Don or Markus Jayne or someone like that, NOTHING goes into the snake rooms for a couple months. But then again, I don't really buy adult animals. When you look at the number of snakes I own, its like maybe 2% that were bought as adults or sub-adults.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I do keep new purchases separate for a period. Not a set period though. I examine the animal(s); take the source into consideration, monitor them for a period and make a judgment call from there. It might be 4 weeks, it might be 1 week or it might be a few months. Basically, however long it takes me to feel comfortable exposing the new animal(s) to my collection. I do NOT just slip them into one of my racks as soon as I get back frm the airport.

I just don't see the point of washing my hands in between each animal's cage and all of that stuff though. I see the extra effort as not giving enough benefit to justify the extra work. Also, with regards to the separate tools and such, I can't justify that either given that the animals are mere inches from one another anyway.

I always have NIX on hand and I "routinely" (I use the word loosely as there is no written or set routine) spray down my room and collection just incase something pops up. I also (copying Tony "BOAS_N PYTHONS") fill a small humidifier with a NIX solution and "bomb" the room". I don't make a habit of purchasing animals from unknown sources. I'm of the thought that what's here is here.

To add another analogy to the discussion, keep in mind the numbers are hypothetical, I figure that if the animal is "fairly" clean to begin with, doing a “30% quarantine” will give me **90%** of the value while doing a “70% quarantine” will only give me **93%** of the value. Doubling my effort for a minute benefit doesn’t make sense to me.

**This is being compared to a “clean room” standard of quarantine.**