Force feeding mix

SCReptiles · 11-08-04, 11:57 PM

According to legend (of course he will not confirm) Bill Haast uses a force feeding mix of 1 part Fancy feast cat food, 1 part Gerber stage II turkey/gravy baby food. ½ teaspoon of Duravet, ½ tea spoon of reptical.

I have been using a variation mixing the baby food with the cat food, sometimes mixing in some potted meat and adding reptivite and t-rex bone aid (liquid calcium)

Two questions:

1. Discussed this with Harper at the SC show last month. He mentioned the cat food may have an ingredient that is harmful to snake kidneys. Any have any information on that?

2. It seems that t-rex has discontinued bone aid. I can not find it on the shelf. I only like to use liquid ingredients as the powders make it difficult to squeeze thru the tube. Wal-Mart is now carrying a liquid calcium product call “coral calcium.” It’s liquid calcium derived from ocean corals. Information on the product can be found at http://www.drinkables.com/vsflash/pgs/index.html Anyone see any ingredients that could harmful to snakes if used in a force feeding mix?

Phrasty · 11-09-04, 12:22 AM

what are the odds, i was just doing some reading on all this, i dunno if this will help, but i saw a "recipe" that goes as follows:

1 jar pureed chichen baby food
1 jar (1:1 ratio as baby food) of gatorade or pedialite
1/4 teaspoon vegetable oil
1 tums tablet for the calcium crushed fine

you should feed 1 oz per kg of snake every 7-21 days

hope it helps...

phrasty

Linds · 11-09-04, 12:28 AM

Most cat and dog food is full of all sorts of garbage I wouldn't want in my cats and dogs, much less my reptiles... even a lot of the 'high quality' vet diets. That aside, I believe the threat to the liver and kidneys comes from levels of d3 excessive for herps, or some sort of improper balance. Nonetheless, many of the ingredients will eventually give your warm and fuzzy friends problems, so likely your herps won't be reap full benefit. When I've had to forcefeed, I used gerber beef w/broth and calcium powder for the most part. If needed for any length of time you can alternate with vitamins, but I don't like mixing vitamins and cal w/ d3 for fear of overdoing it in the d department.

JurassiPet also makes a liquid calcium supplement, although it contains no added d3. They have a variety of other liquid supplements as well. As for coral calcium, I personally don't encourage the use of it as I see no use for using endangered life, especially with many other alternatives

I looked at the ingredients and I honestly couldn't say if they would be harmful or not, there's a bunch of added artifical flavourings and preservatives in there though, as well as sweeteners.

CamHanna · 11-09-04, 12:32 AM

I've only tube fed once but I used powdered vitamins with no problem. I used a human feeding tube which has several larger holes and seemed to exude the feed quite nicely. My only complaint is that the tube was a little girthier than I would have liked and was difficult to get in the mouth. This caused unnecessary stress and is something I would like to change for next time.

I too would like to know about feed mixtures.

Cam

Edit: I used a small amount of cat food blended with sunfish fillit (skin included), freeze dried blood worm and reptivite. I was tubing a mud snake so I was looking for a lower fat content.

Linds · 11-09-04, 12:38 AM

Cam,
Aquarium tubing works great and fits tightly on the end of a syringe.

rwg · 11-09-04, 07:40 AM

Hmmm...what's wrong with tossing a couple F/T mice in a blender with enough water for consistency, and doing away with all the supplements?

SCReptiles · 11-10-04, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Hmmm...what's wrong with tossing a couple F/T mice in a blender with enough water for consistency, and doing away with all the supplements?

The more rough the mix, the larger tube you would have to use. The larger the tube, the more stress on the snake. I like to keep it as smooth as possible, thus allowing a very small tube to be use. A blended mouse would require at least 1/4 tube no matter how fine you blend it. Also, as with all predators, they consume the prey and what the prey has consumed. In the wild they would be eating rodents with stomachs full of fruit and vegetables. Since they are not getting that in captivity, we have to compensate for that.

capsicum · 11-11-04, 02:42 AM

This sounds interesting...how does one put the tube down the throat, does it need to be lubricated (with what?), and how much do you have to feed to the snake (example, the snake is 12" that hasn't eaten in a long time, how do you get the food into the tube without over-feeding the snake and wasting the mix)?

I am just curious for those who are wondering

It's something I haven't read about yet, and seems like a good thing to know just in case

TK

V.hb · 11-11-04, 05:03 PM

Linds, using a bit of dog/catfood in a mixture for an animal needing nourishment is absolutly fine. You dont do it continously, canned A/D is excellent for underweight reptiles but the key is moderation.. Daily over months-years fed will cause kidney and liver problems, not in a very short duration, it does more good than bad.

For omnivorus animals i use v-8 (which is PURE vegitable juice, no additives, dont buy anything spiced, just pure v8) and mix it with a bit of chicken/beef broth and a bit of bone-aid/calcium dust.. works great... For carnivorus, I use A/D mixed with vits and some pedialite or gatorade.. Both fo these are only used for short durations.

snakers55 · 11-11-04, 05:10 PM

I agree with V.hb, canned cat/dog food is ok to give herps, but in moderation, not as the staple diet.. With regards to malnourished animals, canned food usually has a high amount of fat. JMHO.

SCReptiles · 11-12-04, 12:02 AM

Quote:

This sounds interesting...how does one put the tube down the throat, does it need to be lubricated (with what?), and how much do you have to feed to the snake (example, the snake is 12" that hasn't eaten in a long time, how do you get the food into the tube without over-feeding the snake and wasting the mix)?

Ms TT suggests 10cc's per kilo of body weight. I lube my tubes with an egg.

Pic compliments of snakegetters.com

BWSmith · 11-12-04, 01:08 PM

I did find a little trick with tube feeding (since I have had to do more than my fair share this year). I started mixing up a large batch and loading it into as many syringes as it takes. Then freeze the syringes. Now whenever i need to tube feed, i just thaw it out. It takes allot of syringes, but I never reuse them anyway. i also load different sizes from 1 cc to 30cc so I am ready for any sized snake.

I also add just a touch of liquid B12 to my mix for an appetite stimulant. I have never had any problems with the powdered multi-vits or calcium. Of course, I use Rep Cal because it is the consistency of chalk dust. If you want to use rodents, then throw a bag of pink rats in the blender. They liquefy very nicely.