Vet killed my baby - Page 3

HeatherRose · 09-09-04, 10:56 PM

Quote:

And punkuponastar, im SURPRISED at the harshness of YOUR comments especially. How can you say its his fault and not the vets. Thats so screwed up. Obviously we are not all vets and that is why we TAKE our animals there, when we know they need help and we dont know what we can or should do. Thats exactly what was done here, and the VET let this person down. If the vet thought this animal was a goner, which he conveniently admitted after the fact, then he should have said so outright when the animal was in his office and not six feet under.

NO where, in my post, did I say it was his fault. I don't mean to come of harsh, just honest. Maybe you should actually go back and read the post before you jump on me? Maybe? Hmm? I guess we're not allowed to even think about calling out people's mistakes anymore...I'm not saying it's not a possibility though, but you seem epecially quick to blame the vet. Some vets are amazing, some are awful. It all depends. But to blame them of outright lying?

And, in my experience, a necropsy for a chameleon is 40-50$ Canadian, or about 3.99$ US.

Not...uh...kittens.

I still don't feel that blame can be placed ANYWHERE, on the vet, or on the owner, unless one was performed. However much money you paid for the treatements, wouldn't it be worth it to get the answers you want for an extra 50$?

H. Rose.

Artemis · 09-09-04, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
Don't go looking for random people to blame for your mistakes.

Punk sweety i hate to say it but that pretty much says its his fault now doesnt it. He took it to the freaking vet. What more should he have done? Plus, even if unintended, the rest of your post was pretty harsh, at least IMHO. And I live in the US, so I know nothing about the availability of necropsies in Canada, but i DO know its not very easy where Im at. I really wanted to have done it for my kittens, but they wanted more than monthly car payment, and i just couldnt. I guess with necropsies, it depends on the vet.

If you read MY post a little more carefully, you will notice that i did in fact say it wasnt the vet's fault the animal died. However, it seems pretty disturbing to me how the vet managed to change his tune after the fact.

And I am sorry for the long post. Had to vent on that one.

Collide · 09-09-04, 11:04 PM

This post was about the vet KILLING his cham, the vet dident KILL the cham.

and even though some vets are good reptile vets the might not be as framiliar with chameleons. chams IMHO take alot more special care then most other reptiles. There is much more room for error with more variables to deal with. I lost my first cham to egg laying issue mostlikly it was my fault i probably over/under suplemented her I learned from it what i could. I do think it is weird that the vet said after, that she prolly wouldent have made it, mabey he/she was trying to concol him make him feel slightly better. I think that some of the posts her are very good with excellent points.

but the fact is weither the vet sent her some saying she was good she prolly would have died at that point anyway. once chams show signs of sickness there is "usually" not much u can do.

non calcified eggs shounds like a calcium issue or something similar, this dosent accure if they are not breed, chams will produce eggs even with no male at all there almost similar in looks to firtal eggs, but smaller hence easier to lay.

The reason alot off people recomend necropsy is to correct any problems, everyone and i mean everyone can improve in there care, I do a necropsy on any cham that dies in my care, it pinpoints reason of death to an extent, If your mother went to the doctor and droped dead the next day do u want to know of what and why?

People here are just trying to help all have sent there condolences even though im sure some of them have reasions not to, and still did.

*I dont know why your cham died P-D but it is important to know why if it was some freek thing or something u can improve on, im not saying u dident take the best care possible but its important to know.

again it sucks to loose a cham i have a 4 year old going down hill now, and i know it sucks. And unfortunatly most of my guys are gettin old soo im sure the next few years I will loose more then id like to think about. All i can say is most cham people love chams because they are a challange and your always learning, and learning is what keeps u and your chams happy.

focus on the positive crap here. there is alot if u want to see it.

eak holly babble!

Brock · 09-09-04, 11:06 PM

I believe it was previously stated that 'dude' had a past experience with the same vet and was displeased. Yet he brought his beloved chameleone back into the unsure arms of this bad vet.

Make sense?

No.
-Brock

Matt_K · 09-09-04, 11:10 PM

This sentence right here makes me wonder sooo many different things..

Quote:

Originally posted by panther_dude
I barley had money for the first vet exam. I dont have money to get a necropsy.

And he wants to get another one.....

Artemis · 09-09-04, 11:23 PM

well obviously the vet didnt take out a knife and stab it to death- but stages of grieving make the subject line quite understandable in my book.

And matt- Im broke, too. But he didnt say " I didnt take it to the vet because I didnt have any money," he found the money, and he did take it.

And Brock- maybe he was willing to give this vet one more chance, maybe he took it to this vet because he had seen this animal before, maybe there arent any other vets in his area that were available or would see a cham....

Point isnt any of this however, its that the vet LIED. Again, big difference between "gonna be ok" and dead in 12 hours. Even still perhaps the vet might not have been able to tell the prognosis was that bad, but the clincher for me is when the vet ADMITS after the fact he really thought it wouldnt make it. Thats the part that gets me. That would get anybody.

Matt_K · 09-09-04, 11:28 PM

My point was that he can't afford the Necro. but he's buying another animal.. If he can't afford the $50 for a Necro. how will he be able to FEED this new animal????????

Collide · 09-09-04, 11:30 PM

$50 ish for a necropsy

$200-$300 for a panther nosy

??

Artemis · 09-09-04, 11:38 PM

Well that is a valid point Matt, but isnt there a shelf life on the necropsy? Just because he wants a new one doesnt mean he's buying within 72 hours of the other one passing on.

Sorry to sound so harsh. I dont mean to be all combative. I guess its just because ive been there. Ive had the bad vet who lied to me, and I KNOW it wasnt my fault, necropsy or not. Thats my situation not PDs, and I dont know what other factors he could have taken to prevent the loss of his cham, but it seems he truly tried to do the best he could. Plus, what is he supposed to think after the vet tells him its gonna be fine? It really sucks to go to bed thinking its all gonna be ok, and wake up the next morning expecting your animal(s) to be perking up, and find them belly up instead.

Not trying to be a you-know-what, the lack of empathy on this round of posts got my dander up is all.

Makes for a rallying good discussion though.

Sorry if I lost it on ya guys- just sensitive to this particular issue.

HeatherRose · 09-09-04, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Thats my situation not PDs, and I dont know what other factors he could have taken to prevent the loss of his cham, but it seems he truly tried to do the best he could. Plus, what is he supposed to think after the vet tells him its gonna be fine? It really sucks to go to bed thinking its all gonna be ok, and wake up the next morning expecting your animal(s) to be perking up, and find them belly up instead.

It's very unfortunate that panther_dude had to go through this, and I can only imagine how much it would have sucked.

Quote:

Not trying to be a you-know-what, the lack of empathy on this round of posts got my dander up is all.

Totally understandable, same goes for me and blaming vets

...I hope everyone is at least flirting with the possibility that maybe, the vet just didn't know, as opposed to purposely lying. Can it not be possible?

Quote:

Quote:
Originally posted by PuNkuPoNAsTAR
Don't go looking for random people to blame for your mistakes.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, this was meant to be generic, not aimed at Wade at all. I hope he can understand that.

We're all entitled to our opinions, of course. Sorry for the snappy comments, I totally understand how certain topics can rub someone the wrong way Artemis, trust me

Heather

panther_dude · 09-10-04, 07:19 AM

Ok first of all. You guys are really taking this way to far. She is dead nothing you all can say now will bring her back. I cannot point the blame else where? well sure I can. FOr starters what makes you guys think that I took her to the same vet I had a bad experience with last time, she knew absolutly nothing about chameleons. Who would be stupid enough to use the same vet. MAn I dont know what you guys are thinking to post that. You must think im ******** or something.
Acouple things to say to sort this out and you can alll stop arguing with eachother:
1) Im not made of money, and it is exrtremely hard for me to borrow
2) I can say the first vet had a hand in killing her because: 1 I asked for a complete exam, including x rays and blood work. She refused to help me with that, infact the whole time she wouldnt even let me say anything, kept rambling on about something she knew nothing about. She was being very rough with her and loud, so all I wanted to do was get her the hell out of there, she still had a 45 min stressfull ride home.
3) If she had xrays at the first vet we would have been able to find out that for some reason her eggs werent calcifying, and could have been given something to help her i dont know.
4) The second vet came recomended from a freind and knew quite alot about chameleons, The fact is he knew she wasnt going to live without surgery ( he told me the next day) but decided intstead to give her an injection and send me on my way.
Tell me how he is not reasponsible for her death.
5) for the I dont know how many times ive said it already she was getting the proper supplements but just wasnt using them somehow.
i have to go to work ill be back latter to tell you how you are all so wrong.

CarlC · 09-10-04, 08:06 AM

Hey PD,

First and foremost I think you might want to reconsider keeping Chameleons if money is an issue. So little is known about them that even the best Vets have issue's working with them. Treatments for Chams are never cheap and unless more necropsy's are done we will never know what cause's certain things to kill them. You learn so much more than cause of death from a necropsy. I'm not saying her reason for not calcifying the eggs was your fault. But wouldn't you want to know if something was wrong so you could make adjustments to your care so any future females don't have to go through the same thing.

I just think your money would be better spent on finding the cause of the non calcifying. This is not egg binding. The binding was caused by an already present problem.

About your Vet. It is your decision what the Vet does. You are the one paying. Yes the first Vet is someone I would not visit again but the second Vet could have easily been asked to do blood work and x-rays. I have yet to meet a reptile Vet. that would not counsult with another Vet if asked. Scott Stahl in Virginia is well known for working with other Vets. on Chameleon issue's. If I remember correctly I think the CIN even did a few articles on egg binding and egg calcification.

Also, I might be wrong on this, didn't you say you took her to the 2nd Vet after you saw crushed egg around her vent? If one of the eggs had ruptured for any of a numbers of reasons there would be very little that could be done even with surgery. Infection would set in very quick and make recovery from surgery even harder.

I am not trying to slam you but these are somethings that need to be considered. Right now you are working with an easy species. Alot of things are already known about succesfull care wether it be illness or breeding. What happens when you get the chance to work with lesser known species? I would want to be as prepared as possible. Again not a slam.

I can say I was once in the position you are but 25+ Chameleon species and hundreds of babies later I have learned alot and continue learning each day. Learning as much as possible should be the driving cause in your keeping these amazing creatures. We will all fail at some point from actions both controllable and uncontrollable and this must always be remembered.

Carl

Matt_K · 09-10-04, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by panther_dude
1) Im not made of money, and it is exrtremely hard for me to borrow

Then how can you properly care for an animal??? I only ask because in another thread you stated you will be buying another $200-$300 animal.. And again, you said you can't afford the $50 Necro.. How will you afford to properly feed and light this animal???

Quote:

Well that is a valid point Matt, but isnt there a shelf life on the necropsy? Just because he wants a new one doesnt mean he's buying within 72 hours of the other one passing on.

Actually, he has a post in another thread where he's already looking to find out when the next show is to buy another.. Now this may not be 72 hours later, but it's also not a couple months later where he could save up enough money to buy the animal and have money set aside for feeding the animal..

-Matt

marisa · 09-10-04, 01:01 PM

I am not saying its anyones fault...

But personally, (again this is PERSONALLY, my opinion) if you cannot afford a 100 or 200 bucks at the drop of a dime for a vet visit, you shouldn't own exotics.

Yes not everyone is rich. But you do not buy something without thinking of possible future expenses wether it be a pet, or a car. What we do is figure out how many animals we have, figure out how much we have put away for any emergencies....THEN decide if we can afford another animal who might need an emergency visit or vet care. If we can put another drop in our savings bucket to ensure we can go to the vet at ANY time, then we get a new animal.

As animals, their medical problems don't understand waiting for paychecks or more money. They need our help to get them care they need WHEN they need it.

Again, myu opinion, and I am very sorry your Cham died. In the future a good idea is saving up a little fund for each pet you have in case of emergencies. It's quite easy to do even when you are broke, if you do it BEFORE buying each new pet.

Marisa

Artemis · 09-10-04, 03:23 PM

PD honey, I know your hurting, but your attitude in that last post was no better than that of those you refute. I repeat, again, the vet did not KILL you cham. Its condition, or illness, is what killed it. I do not believe you recieved the best care and treatment that you could have from the first vet. You were lied to by the second vet. Those things are very wrong, and perhaps her death could have been prevented. Incompetence its not the same as murder, its more like negligence. Perhaps her death could have been prevented with better vetrinary attention, perhaps not. They didnt kill her, but they didnt save her either. I know the anger you feel about that fact, because thats what vet's are supposed to do, or at least give you an honest prognosis. But it isnt fair to say they killed her, though I certainly understand why you percieve it that way. I was VERY angry at the vet after I lost all my kittens. I understand how you feel very well.

The most valid point you made in your last post is that none of this will bring her back. I am sorry I opened a can of worms, but I do want to stress the point that not all vets are these flawless, infallible saints, either, and you were mishandled by them.

Regardless to anything, your hurt will heal in time.

Art