cooling for breeding?

hooter · 08-26-04, 03:09 AM

Ok for breeding cal kings for exaple your suposed to start with a brumation period where the snakes are subjected to temperatures from 45 - 55 F for 3 months or so...

Is this really needed? Dont get me wrong i know in the wild this is what happens but i dont think everyone that breeds cal kings lives in a house where the temp is 45 degrees...

Couldnt you just turn the hot spot off and cover the cage with a blanket and leave them alone for a few months and get the same effect? If cooling for some colubrids is necessary then how do you breeders go about cooling them while keeping your other reptiles warm?

Reason i ask is because i have some pairs that i plan to breed in the future but if i have to lower my house temp to 45F then screw that lol i cant live that cold and either can my other snakes such as pythons and boas. I dont have a snake only room either so heating one room and cooling the rest of my house isnt a option.

gonesnakee · 08-26-04, 12:02 PM

Basements & crawlspaces can work well for cooling. On the cement floor in the corner of my basement is only 45-50 F & the basement in general is usually 60 f or less anyway. I have a platform that they are stored underneath & boxes & other basement stuff are stacked on top. Nice & dark & cool. Mark

Drunkenblade · 08-26-04, 02:21 PM

Hey, I would check your resources before Brumating below 55*F!!!!

Brumation is generally between 55*-65*F for three months.....

Please Note that, IMO and experience, 40*-50*F for 3 months may/will lead to death!!!

I have Bred Colubrids for awhile and follow, Steven T. Osborne's article in th 1982 edition (Volume 4: Number 3,4,7 & 9) of the San Diego Herpetological Society Newsletter religiously!!

I have a hard copy of the Article and will attempt to post a Link on my Website. I may have to rewrite it or something, but I'll do my best to post it soon.

hooter · 08-26-04, 03:48 PM

Well my resources are from n.e.r.d reptiles and the degrees to which to cool was a quote from their website for cal kings.

I live in a condo so i dont have a basement or a really cool spot in the house. Im trying to figure out if i should buy these dif colubrid pairs to breed or not because if they wont breed unless cooled then i dont want to waste my time.

Drunkenblade · 08-26-04, 05:53 PM

Quote:

because if they wont breed unless cooled then i dont want to waste my time. [/B]

Did N.E.R.D. state that toooooo?? I have had Plenty of Kings and Milks that breed without "cooling"

Some of my oldest pairs breed each year without any special consideration to Temperature!

Please don't get me wrong.... Use multiple sources of reliable information to formulate a Brumation schedual..... But there is no need to rewrite the book

hooter · 08-26-04, 06:00 PM

I'm not trying to say whos info is right and whos info isnt. Im simply looking for a answer to my question which is will most colubrids breed without cooling.

I wanted to breed some mex blacks, pueblans, and hogs but if they will not breed without cooling other than turning off the heat pad then I dont want to pair anything up.

Can it be done or not because like i said i dont want to waste my time. I have read all the care sheets and breeding info i could find but they all say cool your snakes for 2 or 3 months and that simply isnt a option for me so this is why i ask if anyone here has bred snakes without cooling because if so i will still pair up what i want to breed.

Drunkenblade · 08-26-04, 06:09 PM

This is the information "hooter" is basing his argument on.... From NERD, This is NERD's own words.......

"California kingsnakes reach sexual maturity anywhere from 18 months to 3 years of age. Breeding season in captivity typically ranges from November to May, starting with a brumation period where the snakes are subjected to temperatures from 45 - 55 F for 60 - 90 days. Stop all feeding at least 2 weeks prior to brumation. Animals should be well established and in excellent condition before any breeding is attempted. After 2 to 3 months, both males and females are slowly warmed back up and fed 2 or 3 meals prior to introduction. Introduce the female into the male's cage. Females typically shed 14-20+ days after ovulation; eggs are typically laid within 30 days of post-ovulation shed. Clutch size for Cal kings ranges from 6 - 12+ eggs, and females may lay more than one clutch per year. At incubation temperatures of 82 - 85F (optimal), these eggs take an average of 65 days to hatch. "
__________________

Thats it, a small paragraph............ Please I stated before I have the info you need

12 TWELVE pages of documented breeding of North American Colubrids, that is PEER reviewed.

I'll be sure to go to NERD to get info about Ball Pythons.... They know every thing about them...............

I Posted the Link Through my Website for you to View....
The Colubrid Collector
Click on Links
it is in Education

hooter · 08-26-04, 07:35 PM

Thanks for the reply

I dont know what u mean by *argument* but whatever it means i'm not trying to argue anything lol. Like i said i'm just asking for advice and posting what n.e.r.d said. I never said if n.e.r.d is right or wrong and i could care less really. I just wanted to know if colubrids will breed without having a cooling period :P

Thanks!

Drunkenblade · 08-26-04, 10:16 PM

sorry about that

argument as "reason put forth" NOT "(angry)exchange of views"

hooter · 08-26-04, 10:54 PM

Hehe ok i wasnt sure which way to take that :P

Thanks for the reply though i guess i will go about trying to breed some colubrids without cooling. The worst thing that could happen i guess is they wont breed and I would be left with a breeding pair that wont is of no use lol. Oh well at least breeder pairs sell for more than babies :P

Jeff_Favelle · 08-26-04, 11:28 PM

People breed colubrids ALL the time without cooling them. People also breed colubrids ALL the time, WITH a cooling period. Its up to you to decide what's going to work best. Both ways have worked, and both ways have failed.

More people cool than don't cool if it helps.

hooter · 08-26-04, 11:52 PM

Thanks Jeff. Its my understanding that if you dont cool the breeding response may not be as strong as it would have been if you did cool.

I also read that sperm production is better if you cool them so I see the points made but I really want to breed so I will try and see what happens.

I just wanted to make sure that cooling was something that absolutely had to be done in order to breed some colubrids because non of the breeding articles touch on the fact that some people dont cool so i was under the impresion that cooling was needed in order for reproduction.

Thanks for the replies.

Will · 08-27-04, 12:58 AM

Some people don't bother cooling. My pair last year were cooled for 3.5 months at 65+/- a few degrees, and bred for me this year. I think 55-60 is what most people aim for...