"Chipping" reptiles

[Jeff Hathaway]

Mostly what you're paying for is the 'installation service', Marisa. Think how much it costs just for a small animal check up! Vets have high costs to cover.

Cruciform- do you have any links to what you're saying about the future of these tags? I'd love to do some further reading!

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Cruciform]

Jeff,

A good source for info on them is www.slashdot.org

You can search the older archives for RFID related articles. They have a link to one in today's stories too.

There's been a lot of coverage of RFID among privacy advocate sites because once it's widespread you could practically track a person where ever they go.

There are even sites on how to disable the chips woven into clothing or other items. Pop 'em in the microwave for 10 seconds and fry the transceiver

[Ontario_herper]

I picked up a handy tip from a snake researcher here in Ontario, this past summer. From what I know the "standard" way to PIT tag is by going against the scales (eg: inserting towards the head). It is slightly more difficult but inserting toward the tail actually improves your chances of the tag NOT coming back out of the snake via the hole of entry. Because of course the way a snake moves the "standard" way of inserting makes it more likely that the tag will fall back out again.

This is not so much a problem with captive snakes but with wild snakes a lost PIT tag means lost data (and wasted time and effort).

[Gary D.]

Jeff, you may have missed the point of my posts. The discussion was regarding herpetoculture, not field study. Field study is a completely different area. Certainly there others that have chipped more animals in that application. I agree that in field study there is no standard implantation site, many researchers also implant intramuscular in the neck muscles, just behind the head. As I stated, the site I chose, which coincides with Bob Clark's is more consistant with accepted sites for domestic use, which this is, and thus is more likely to be found by a vetranarian or technician. Consistancy within the hobby is desireable. However I suppose you are correct in that I should have stated, regarding implantation sites, that I use and recommend...

Subcutaneous implantation is only temporary and will eventually be lost due to shedding in snakes, thus is not desireable for the intended purpose in herpetoculture. This has been witnessed by myself and is supported by AVID Canada. Intramuscular is the best permenant method. In addition it leaves a noticeable lump as you have observed which is definately easier to remove. Implantation within the body cavity was not in error, this is the best practiceable implantation site for small snakes, such as neonate boas. In addition to not leaving noticeable, (and undesireable when selling offspring), it is virtually impossible to remove other than surgically. Also the wound should be sealed with a surgical glue. The methods I use have been discussed as a group and first performed with a close friend and herpetologist, my vetranarian and a representative of AVID Canada.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify.
GD

[Jeff Hathaway]

Hey Gary,

Actually, I was making a bit of a joke about the numbers thing:-) So much is lost in the translation...

I did say I think consistency is good, just that I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. There's Bob's way (which you're following), and various others, but no wide agreement on which is best.

I'm not sure I agree regarding subcutaneous implantation, etc. If it is between the dermis and the muscle tissue, there is no reason for the tag to be lost through shedding. Injury, perhaps. Maybe the problem with this is that some people don't actually get it deep enough. I've seen snakes with tags in the field that had persisted for 6-8 years, and I'm sure there have been longer records. The researchers have put a lot of effort into figuring out the best ways to do this and they want the tags to last for the life of the snake. I can see intramuscular working as well. I don't think I'd want to be implanting into the body cavity proper (as in inside the ribs) as there are lots of vital parts in there and it is difficult to know what you might hit. Are you really putting them within the peritoneal membrane? I would consider this to be way more invasive, and a surgical procedure which should be done by a vet. To me the risks would outweigh the benefit of not having the chip be noticeable. Just my opinions, of course, and I welcome the discussion, as I will be investing in a reader and implantation kit this year- we have more snakes of our own to do now, and presumably lots more in the future.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Gary D.]

You are correct that it is an increased risk, and definately could be considdered a surgical procedure which should not be taken lightly. The first five animals were done together in my vet's office. There is definately a proper way to do it and erring can have dire consequences, however I have not had a death yet.

If you are considdering investing in the equipment, I recommend contacting Cathy at AVID Canada. She has been with me on this since day one and will happily sell to breeders. I suggest not investing in a kit as such, simply acquiring a couple of "syringes", "needles" and bulk chips and sterilizing yourself, rather than spending the, money on the one time use equipment, or implantation guns. Each needle is good for about five implantations. She can also set you up with a used reader which will save you big bucks.

Gary

[Jeff Hathaway]

Hey Gary,

A used reader would be cool! I have been considering investing in the stuff for a couple of years now, but resisted spending the money. Definitely I'll be getting the bulk chips/syryinges/needles rather the single use stuff. I've used the bulk chips in the field and am quite comfortable with them.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Gary D.]

The Avid Canada people are great, I can get you the phone numbers ( Toll-free Phone: 1-800-338-1397 Fax: 403-263-2055) They are located in Calgary, so getting you the stuff would probably be next day.

[Cruciform]

Now if there were lessons available around here it would rock

I wonder how many I could stick i my arm for practice. :P

[Jeff Hathaway]

Cruciform,

If you want to come up to Orillia, or join in the May Pelee Island trip, I'll show you how to do it (subcutaneously, that is!).

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Cruciform]

That would be cool what's the dates on the May trip? I'm under a work related travel embargo 90 days prior to May 14.

[Jeff Hathaway]

That sounds unusual! The Pelee trip should be May 22-24 this year.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Cruciform]

Cool Is the info on your website somewhere?

We have an industry show in May so deadlines are critical. Other times of the year it's much more flexible