A Few Questions... - Page 2

Kimo · 01-30-04, 08:20 PM

point taken, but im still a bit curious as to how you can judge if a snake is "stressed" or not ? i mean if im a lil stressed, doesnt stop me from "mating" hell makes me feel a whole lot more relaxed! same with food! ( and im not taking in an emotional state either) just over all feel relaxed! and im sorry once again my first post was a mistype on my part, i did not mean to bash the rack system! i guess my lil mind can't comprehend it! and as to saphiremoons post, your right, I cant make it 100% natural! if i did! what the hell is the point in keeping herps? so we can kill em off with parisites and predators? no, that was not my point, and im sorry if i mislead you into thinking as such, my point was merely trying to provide as close to as possible their natural habbitat while maintaining a safe enviroment! no you also mentioned somthing in regards to cage size, this i understand, no matter how big, it's still not "home" to them, but i try my damndest to provide just that! and i would like to think that these snakes have some intelligence, and not just instincts!, hell being the lil escape artists they are proves that! doesnt it? or perhaps it's just the instinct to roam around free! that we are obviously denying them? let the debate rage on again! and please remember! this is merely a learning experience for me! i am completely open minded here, and am trying to learn as much as i can through this "debate" else if we didnt question eachother, how would we learn!!!

Kimo

Derrick · 01-30-04, 08:25 PM

If they were stressed they wouldn't breed and thrive in captivity.

Pick out sand and urates from sand is an easy task because its easly spotted. If your snake "required" a jungle like floor that kinga stupp is likly to get missed plus you would never know if you got it all which lead to bacterial problems. It would be an impossability to create enviornment that cleanses the system naturally.

Most of the natural looking enclosure I've seen posted here we're that way because thats what the herp requires to thrive in captivity..ie Chameleons frogs turtles etc.

You've had the benifit of seeing how we house our animals. Givving you the opertunity to criticize our setups yet you havent posted pictures of your own to show us how it "should" be done.

Derrick

Kimo · 01-30-04, 10:50 PM

correction, i do not believe my setup "Should" be done, and your obviously confusing this once again as an ATTACK for the like 4th time this WAS NOT my intention, i'm asking people to EDUCATE me on WHY their set-ups are as such, because "I" didn't see a reason for it! now, please go back and read some of my previous posts, paticularly my aplogies for my mistake in asking this, i understand it seems like an attack!, but this was NOT my intention, if you had read my previous posts you would have realized this! however, they way "I" see it is...I care for what few animals i have, because thats the amount i believe i can properly maintain! i dont mind doing all of these spot checks to make sure their habbitat is clean! and yes, cleaning my KSB enclosure is easier than cleaning my veiled! but such is the responsibility i took upon myself when i purchased my herps! to care for and provide to the best of my ability the best possible home for them as i possibly could! we just obviously have different views on housing thats all wich is fine!

Was Just Looking For Education Thats It Thats All!!!

Yup Yup!

Kimo

Derrick · 01-30-04, 11:50 PM

First of I did not consider it an attack. But you have implied that your way is better. Yet you have posted no pictures of your own enclosures. Everything has pretty much been said on the rubbermaid side.

You want to be educated? to what end? Its not like you are going to change your setup, thats fine I'm sure there is no reason to but this isnt really a debate its just a waste of time and effort of those who've taken the time to reply. Anything you want to know on the subject could have been found by clickin

at the top of the page

Linds · 01-31-04, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimo
point taken, but im still a bit curious as to how you can judge if a snake is "stressed" or not ? i mean if im a lil stressed, doesnt stop me from "mating" hell makes me feel a whole lot more relaxed! same with food! ( and im not taking in an emotional state either) just over all feel relaxed!

Well I answered all of the questions in my first post that you are asking for proof of again, so I'll try to explain it in different words

We are very different from snakes, so we cannot base their reactions on ours. LOL... I could be physically ill and balding from stress and still "mate" like crazy

Functional means just that, it provides all the snakes needs in an easy to maintain setup, the snakes are not particularily conncerned with how their needs are met, as long as they ARE met

As long as they have places to feel secure, regulate their temps, and whatever else that particular species of snake requires, that's all that matters to them - whether or not it is a rock cave or a margarine container, pond or dog dish, pvc piping or branches, and so on. The fact that some snakes will do better in racks than in glass tanks full of decorations also has to speak for something. Just because we do not find it visually appealing, is not to say it isn't every bit as sufficient to the animal as one that is. Snakes aren't concnerned with appearance like many humans are, they jsut want what works

sapphire_moon · 01-31-04, 07:24 AM

because YOU are not a snake. Snakes react to stress by not eating or breeding, by getting sick, or by getting nippy.

As I said, YOU are not the snake. And every HUMAN displays stress in a different way. So it really don't matter how you show that you are stressed, because how you show that you are stressed is not going to be how your snake shows that he is stressed.

Auskan · 01-31-04, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimo
point taken, but im still a bit curious as to how you can judge if a snake is "stressed" or not ? i mean if im a lil stressed, doesnt stop me from "mating" hell makes me feel a whole lot more relaxed! same with food!
Kimo

There is a big difference between humans and other animals. Humans are among the only animals that "mate" for pleasure and to release tension and to express emotion. Animals due it purely for procreation and only when conditions are just right.

On the feeding issue. Again, there is a huge difference between mammals and reptiles, however most animals - and even some humans! - will not eat when stressed. Humans are unique in that many use food as a "comfort source".

Invictus · 01-31-04, 01:10 PM

Something I would like to add about a KSB's "natural" environment..

They are called "Sand Boas", but this does not mean that they are always found buried in sand. They are called this mainly because of the areas that they are from (Kenya, Nyrobi, Sudan, Egypt, etc.), and because they bury - however, they are more commonly found buried in the burrows of other animals. Here is a link you should check out:

http://www.**************/sandboa/housing.html

There is a lot of very useful information there. In my opinion, there is no reason whatsoever to house Kenyans on sand. It's not what they bury in in the wild, and it causes problems in captivity. 3-4 inches of aspen makes them feel just as secure, except that they can actually breathe in that substrate without having to stick their noses out of the sand.

Invictus · 01-31-04, 01:11 PM

Sorry, replace the ******** above with k i n g s n a k e . c o m (without the spaces.)