Handling BCI's - Page 4

Invictus · 01-02-04, 04:31 PM

Still BoaBoi, I don't assume that he's "dog tame". Even my big boa could turn on me at any time. And I didn't say he "needs" to be handled. If I left him alone for a few weeks, he'd probably adjust to not being handled. It's not a NEED of snakes. However, I do believe that some snakes can adjust to it to the point of "liking" (or as hip pointed out, being familiar with) human contact.

hip · 01-02-04, 04:49 PM

Son I think you are missing the point that so many keepers have posted here. I have been bitten more often by so called tame snakes than I ever have been by others(that includes w/c I have posessed in the past.) I have tried to get to know my boa's I have learned they are crappy playing cards. they prefer arnold movies to Tom Cruse movies and can hold thier own with me drinkin beer up to a 12 pack then I pull away while they snore off the beer.Snakes NEED proper housing proper temps proper humidity and proper feeding. They also do quite well with a proper light cycle based on the time of the year. A litle vitamine supplement on a prey item ever once and a while and a vet check up once or twice a year will just about do all that is required to keep them healthy and long lived. Save the "Hello" for some one who is not trying to help you out tude only gets tude.

Hip

tHeGiNo · 01-02-04, 05:03 PM

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Now, I am personally sick to DEATH of people saying that snakes merely TOLERATE handling, because not one person here is an expert in animal psychology, and not one study has ever been conducted on this. I personally own a few snakes that get VERY stressed out if they are not taken out of their cages and interacted with on a semi-daily basis. So on this point I will defend you - until someone shows me their degree in animal psychology, assuming that snakes only tolerate handling is equally ridiculous to assuming that they require it.

Thank you for agreeing with me on most things, but your contradicting yourself there. Your right, no one is an expert in animal psychology. Not me, not you. So how then can you say your snakes are stressed out if they are not taken out, and how would you know they like when you are handling them? I hate this debate, simply because there is not enough information out there to allow one to say firmly that they do or do not like being handled.

Hip, I think your familiarity theory is a good one, and may make sense. However, a snake being 'familiar' does not me it will still not strike at you, bite you, or defend itself from you. As long as one understands that, they are good to go.

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I fully agree with everyone who has made it a point to point out the sheer power of any type of constrictor. You get a 6 foot boa wrapped around your arm that does not want to let go it is very difficult to get them off (I don’t care how big or strong you are) Respect and caution are two of the greatest tools that can be used by any keeper of large boids. When I say large I mean 6 feet and up (no does not mean 4 or 5 feet are not included in the respect and caution category) Keep long enough and you will get bitten buy even the most docile snake , and you will have moments of concern if you handle big snakes alone. Be safe big stuff should have 2 people if you are not experienced with proper handling. Just don’t put yourself in a position of compromise if you are alone and use common sense and in certain situations proper tools.

Brilliantly said, I specifically like the quote below:

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Respect and caution are two of the greatest tools that can be used by any keeper of large boids

Invictus · 01-02-04, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Thank you for agreeing with me on most things, but your contradicting yourself there. Your right, no one is an expert in animal psychology. Not me, not you. So how then can you say your snakes are stressed out if they are not taken out, and how would you know they like when you are handling them? I hate this debate, simply because there is not enough information out there to allow one to say firmly that they do or do not like being handled.

Ah, but now you're contradicting yourself as well, because you said, very definitively, that there is NO SUCH THING as a snake that likes to be handled. I mentioned that I have some observations and experience with my own collection that would lead me to believe that some do. As for knowing when they are content, you're right - it can sometimes be hard to tell, depending on the snake. But when they are stressed, it's VERY easy to tell, and that is how I know they get stressed when they are not handled. Believe me, when my big Hades doesn't want to be handled, he lets us know that too. It's also pretty easy to tell when they are content, given their level of calmness, speed of breathing, frequency of tongue flicking, strength by which they hold on to you, etc. It's all about observation, and even a bit of speculation, I must admit. But I think it's irresponsible as well to be dismissive and say that no snake "likes" handling, end of story. Because there is still the possibility that this is an incorrect statement too.

Oliverian · 01-02-04, 06:02 PM

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but...

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I give all animals the binefit of the doubt, while using common sense. I have handled copperheads and what not I find outside every chance I get, I'm an animal lover plain and simple. Of course you use common sense and secure the head till you know wether or not it's in a bad mood or not.

I seriously hope you aren't saying you go outside and secure copperhead's heads, and if you think they're in a good mood, you release the head and continue to handle them? Even if that's not what you meant, at the very least tell me you use snake hooks. I sincerely hope you don't freehandle the local venomous. Most (if not all) good experienced venemous keepers don't even do that. Could you mabye fill me in?

So are you going to help correct your friend's husbandry mistakes? I for one would respect you if you went and did that.

-TammyR

tHeGiNo · 01-02-04, 06:11 PM

Ah yes, I guess I did say that, and I did contradict myself. But again I still think there is a lot of truth to that.

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But when they are stressed, it's VERY easy to tell, and that is how I know they get stressed when they are not handled. Believe me, when my big Hades doesn't want to be handled, he lets us know that too.

Not really, and not always. Some snakes hide it, some show it. Like you said, we cannot log the psychology of the snakes, so we do not know for sure if they are stressed or not.

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It's also pretty easy to tell when they are content, given their level of calmness, speed of breathing, frequency of tongue flicking, strength by which they hold on to you, etc. It's all about observation, and even a bit of speculation, I must admit. But I think it's irresponsible as well to be dismissive and say that no snake "likes" handling, end of story.

Again, just because they are not breathing fast, are smelling the air, and are gripping you tight, that STILL does not mean they LIKE or WANT to be handled. It means they are tolerating the handling. Right?

tHeGiNo · 01-02-04, 06:15 PM

Oliverian, no actually I did not see that. I didn't notice he said to secure the head.

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I give all animals the binefit of the doubt, while using common sense. I have handled copperheads and what not I find outside every chance I get, I'm an animal lover plain and simple. Of course you use common sense and secure the head till you know wether or not it's in a bad mood or not.

You are either really really irresponsible, and a few other choice words I would like to use in this situation, or you are lying. I hope to God you are lying, and don't go outside picking up copperheads and holding onto their heads until you THINK they are 'calm.' *sigh*

Oliverian · 01-02-04, 06:18 PM

Gino, my thoughts exactly. I truly hope I am mistaken as well.

-TammyR

hip · 01-02-04, 06:31 PM

Sweet J E A S U S I missed that one two I miss stuff when my beer level dips below 100 parts per million. Doesen't matter what mood a pit viper is in venom is venom.Coper head bites I have read are very painfull and some people experence pain for years due to nerve damage and loss of tissue. Well for some the best way to learn is by making a mistake. I hope boa boi dosen't fall into that category headlines like "boy bitten by copperhead" in the newspaper only give all snakes a bad rap which is something none of need in this politically correct anal retentive (fine line between the two if you ask me) world we live in. Like I said before respect and caution are great tools for all herpers if used correctly.

Well time to get that beer level back up to were it should be

HIP

tHeGiNo · 01-02-04, 08:10 PM

Despite the very serious topic, LMAO!

HetForHuman · 01-02-04, 08:24 PM

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Originally posted by hip
Sweet J E A S U S I missed that one two I miss stuff when my beer level dips below 100 parts per million.

Well time to get that beer level back up to were it should be

HIP

OMG man that is the funniest thing i've heard in awhile.

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 01-08-04, 11:48 AM

C.MARSHELL:

Yeap I hear you on that, that is all we need more negative news reports on large boids, lol.

Cya...

Tony

BoaBoi · 01-09-04, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oliverian
I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but...

I seriously hope you aren't saying you go outside and secure copperhead's heads, and if you think they're in a good mood, you release the head and continue to handle them? Even if that's not what you meant, at the very least tell me you use snake hooks. I sincerely hope you don't freehandle the local venomous. Most (if not all) good experienced venemous keepers don't even do that. Could you mabye fill me in?

So are you going to help correct your friend's husbandry mistakes? I for one would respect you if you went and did that.

-TammyR

More or less you are correct, I wouldn't just pick it up and release the head as you put it but more like observe it for a few days. Long enough handling it for it to know I'm not goin to harm it. Then and only then letting it have free range, I have done this with 2 venomous snakes(copperhead) and have not been bitten yet. I do understand the severety of this and how dangerous it can be, but I simply don't care. It's about the same as finding a black widow inside and picking it up and putting it outside. Most people would "Squish" it, I simply move them. Although with snakes my interest are peaked and I tend to mess with them for a while before letting them go.

James~

P.S. I really don't care what your opinion is of me, this is just how I am. I am recless, I admit it, but this really isn't any more dangerous than alot of things people do when you use common sense.

HetForHuman · 01-09-04, 02:18 AM

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Originally posted by BoaBoi
I do understand the severety of this and how dangerous it can be, but I simply don't care.

James~

This has got to be the most stupidest thing i have ever seen anybody say. You have to grab a clue man.

I'm sorry but this is the kind of attitude that gets people hurt and possibly killed when messing with venomous snakes. And also sheds a very bad light on all reptile keepers.

In my opinion you should'nt be able to even look at a reptile, nevermind own one.

Invictus · 01-09-04, 10:19 AM

I agree, Het. James, you need to extract your head from your arse and start taking a look at the real world, and I mean the SAME VERSION of reality that the sane world tends to acknowledge. You're not Reckless, you're not a daredevil, you're a fricken moron, plain and simple. I hope that when a copperhead tags you (WHEN, not IF), that the poison jars you back into reality. Idiots like you have no business whatsoever owning herps. You're just going to get them banned for the rest of us. WAKE THE HELL UP.