venomous caresheets or not?

**Aaron_S** · 04-25-03, 11:00 PM

Well I'm giving Zoe a hand on her caresheet website and we were wondering if we should put a section for venomous species caresheets. What do you think?

**Aaron_S** · 04-25-03, 11:03 PM

forgot to add up there warnings similar to the ones I've seen on other websites with caresheets about hots.Saying knowing this caresheet doesn't mean your able to own one.Something along those lines.

The_Omen · 04-25-03, 11:52 PM

I am pretty much against having the hots sheets as it would lead some to believe they can handle hots without any training what so ever.
There is more to owning/keeping hots than simple care sheets.
Locking caging, emergency protocols, insurance, when affordable, a big stash of cash to cover the liability of yourself or anothers envenomations, the proper tools, way too many things to cover for a caresheet.

And you cannot learn discipline or any mindset from a care sheet.

Better to have good proper training, rather than getting lucky as heck, establishing good strongly ingrained habits vs. luck - chance and complacency that since it hasn't bitten me in the past, it may never.

Besides, how many lawyers would be willing to bankrupt this sites owner AND the caresheets author, if some one did get an envenomation, then said 'I learned how to keep them on ssnakess.'

Remember the hot coffee lawsuits?

Zoe · 04-25-03, 11:56 PM

Well of course Omen, but it would be repeatedly stressed that keeping hots was not recommended or applauded by the owners and that bla bla bla you need a lisence and be very careful etc. thats just common sense.

The_Omen · 04-26-03, 12:02 AM

I also forgot to mention..
That hots, although they are a mostly hands off animal for the majority of the time, there WILL be a time when you MUST get hands on with them, IE: sickness, bad sheds, escapes, possible vet trips etc.

Unless being taught the proper ways to tube, bag, unbag, relocate, hook, pin etc, along with which species you can't simply pin or hook easily, it is too big of a chance for darwinism to rear its ugly head and say ' I gottcha!'

And other things that are learned from the experience of a cool headed teacher, such as what meds cannot be used to treat simple things, such as mites, ticks etc, which can kill the snakes quickly, a real sense of confidence can be built up with the proper training instead of a cocky confidence that many self taught (anything) people will possess.

And common sense... it isn't quite so common now is it?

Edited by me for one typo and to add the last sentence on common sense.

Zoe · 04-26-03, 12:04 AM

lol, what exactly does a snake bite have to do with darwin?

Zoe

The_Omen · 04-26-03, 12:09 AM

hehe, Darwinism is what we say when we talk of the survival of the fittest, smartist etc...

A person that does something they were not trained for or were not smart enough to realize would lead to their almost or complete death, is proving Darwinism.

maybe this site, http://darwinawards.com/ , can explain it a little better than I.

Zoe · 04-26-03, 12:13 AM

Oh, yeah I know what Darwinism is, I just didn't pick up on it's usage in that particular sentence.

Yeah that's a pretty (gruesomely) funny site!

Zoe

BWSmith · 04-26-03, 06:46 AM

A Hot care sheet would be 200 pages. Handling, caging, etc. I don't agree with venomous care sheets that readily available.

Matt · 04-26-03, 07:28 AM

...Brian, I agree with you to a certain extent, having them available at a whim isnt the best idea,

but dont you think that if someone has decided for themselves to keep hot (ready or not), would it not be helpful for there to be a really good informative care sheet so at least if they are going to do it, they have some good info.

I mean, they may do it anyways, with or without a care sheet, and having a great one on hand may help.

I dont know, its a tough subject, i dont really feel 100% about either side of the argument.

Maybe "caresheet" wouldnt be the best word, probably a general informative page on saftey, hadling tips and stuff would be better

dlucka · 04-26-03, 08:15 AM

I agree with BW, for the 200 pages. But what could be interesting is
what you need to do before getting your first hot and caging it.
- The $$$ of your own antivenin stuck (if there is no hot snake in your area hospital won't have it and if you wait for the zoo to bring it well...) and epipen. Some of those stock will have to be refresh even if not used $$$.
- The protocol for injecting antivenin, most of the time it will not be just a
injection and it's over.
- All little and big modification you'll need to do to your room, so the guy next door will not ask you:" Is this one of your snake?"
- All the working tool you must have and know how to work with.
- The second person???
- Training
- Assurance, if after all the precaution some thing turn bad.
And many more...
It would sound more like a human working with hot care sheet.
There is too many people thinking that they can keep a hot snake like any other.
I think some one did a short list of it on the forum with some picture, it was very interesting, you could go with some thing like this. For sure you will not cover all if yes, it's going to be a nice book loll.

If you go with common snake care sheet, we almost all have a good idea on how to keep snake if not why would you look for a hot snake care sheet?

Mustangrde1 · 04-26-03, 02:47 PM

I have spent time pondering this very subject. Often I have gone to many websites and books looking for information on a selected species be it a hot or not. It appears to me that there are so many different opinions on how the care of the animal { must } lol, be done. A care sheet to me is just a general reference.

The best care sheet I have found is by actually studying the country and region in the country the animal is from and then by studying the natural scientific history of the animal. Also talking to people who have successfully kept and breed the animal for years. By doing this you better educate yourself on the animal and its natural conditions. Their natural condition is after all what they live and thrive in.

Now as for giving out venomous care sheets, I personally believe this would be an invitation to people going out and purchasing a venomous reptile before they are ready and not a good idea in my opinion. I still believe strongly that Florida's laws regarding permits and time required learning before you can buy a venomous reptile should be adopted for any person wanting to buy a venomous reptile. It is to me a cooling off period and time to learn and reflect on purchasing something that could potentially kill you, your friends, your family, etc., etc., and is a strong deterrent to impulse buyers.

I hate to say it but we all know people buy things on just an impulse and whim and it has made me wonder how many people get these animals then relies its beyond what they can handle and kill it or release it or give it to a friend with even less experience.

The_Omen · 04-26-03, 07:28 PM

Mustangrde1 · 04-26-03, 07:38 PM

Vic . In Florida they require you to have 1 year not to consist of less than 1000 hours in the { Care , Feading , Handleing and Husbandry} of the species or similar species you wish to posses, also they require you to have a escape proof room and or locking cages marked with what the species is and clearly marked Live Venomous Reptile, the Freshwater Fish and Wildlife commision will and does come to check the place the permit is addressed for and you must renew your permit yearly. Along with other requirements to obtain your permit ot posses venomous reptiles, you can see it all at the Florida Fish and Freshwater Game Commisions web site.

Gregg M · 04-27-03, 07:30 AM

Care sheets for venomous is a bad idea....... It simplifies the keeping of venomous snakes....... People should learn proper handling first and do lots of research on the snake and the environment it comes from........ When I started keeping venomous I had no doubt that I was ready......... I think caresheets will make some people feel they are ready when they really arent.........