Is it possible?

trailblazer295 · 08-18-17, 07:46 PM

This thought came to mind today. In nature there are mutations and genetic abnormalities that occur rarely in all species. Some are physical shape, colour etc. Is it possible for a venomous species to be born with a genetic deformity that prevents them from producing venom? Like a cobra that isn't deadly, just a large snake with sharp fangs. In nature I doubt they would survive as they didn't evolve to constrict so they wouldn't be able to hunt and feed as normal. But the question came to mind does such a thing happen.

RAD House · 08-18-17, 09:02 PM

It is definitely possible, and could arise by more ways than by just genetic mutation. I would think an animal like this would not make it past the infant stage.

SerpentineDream · 08-18-17, 10:08 PM

Agreed. It may well happen but since it couldn't kill its prey in order to feed I doubt it would survive more than a few weeks at best. It would also be very unlikely for someone to observe such an animal unless it was captive bred.

daisymaisy · 08-18-17, 10:22 PM

If a snake can be born with two heads, anything is possible

. Probably not a perfect analogy though. A cobra could certainly have something like a missing venom gland or fangs, from something going wrong when developing in the egg maybe?

T-man · 08-24-17, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisymaisy

If a snake can be born with two heads, anything is possible

. Probably not a perfect analogy though. A cobra could certainly have something like a missing venom gland or fangs, from something going wrong when developing in the egg maybe?

Heck yeah! This may sound stupid and all but can a venomous snake use all its venom...P.S. if i do post something nonunderstandable its probably because of how late it is and you dont have to answer

sorry im new and im only 14 years old so i sound very immature anyways i have an albino corn named cola and hes 5 months old

T-man · 08-24-17, 12:58 AM

Why arent my posts poping up

toddnbecka · 08-24-17, 12:10 PM

A venomous snake w/out functional venom glands would starve if it wasn't eaten by a predator first. Instinct would be to strike and wait for the prey to die, which wouldn't happen. Not to mention some types of venom actually start digesting the prey even before it's swallowed.
On the other hand, one born in captivity would probably be considered quite valuable, lol.

Doug 351 · 08-24-17, 09:19 PM

MEH...Just get some cobras and test your theory!

Venomous snakes don't always invect venom. Kinda like when you go shopping... You don't always spend money.....

Sooo...occasionally,poisonous snakes will give "dry bites".

**Aaron_S** · 08-25-17, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug 351

MEH...Just get some cobras and test your theory!

Venomous snakes don't always invect venom. Kinda like when you go shopping... You don't always spend money.....

Sooo...occasionally,poisonous snakes will give "dry bites".

This legit has nothing to do with the thread topic.

Yes we all know this already.

TRD · 08-25-17, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug 351

MEH...Just get some cobras and test your theory!

Venomous snakes don't always invect venom. Kinda like when you go shopping... You don't always spend money.....

Sooo...occasionally,poisonous snakes will give "dry bites".

A feeding response bite from a venomous snake will inject venom 100% of the time. There's a theory that defensive bites do not always inject venom, which makes of course absolute sense. This is also fully in the snake's control and doesn't happen "by chance". There's another study ongoing that tries to find out if those snakes that have slow acting and/or venom that doesn't cause acute pain are more likely to give dry defensive bites (ie- the venom aspect doesn't give the snake any added defensive value as the predator would of killed it anyway before the venom could act).

Doug 351 · 08-25-17, 02:43 PM

Thanks TRD. Anyway, ...back to topic ( personally speaking).

I saw a show where they were studying how a certain rattlesnake could survive in a climate with sub-freezing temperature. They replicated the climatic conditions, fed it and attempted to monitor the digestive process. After a certain number of days, they had to intervene before the snake died.

So, Todd... that's when they had a DOH!!! moment...and realized the prey had not been invenomated. Rattlesnakes in paticular have tissue destroying venom. The aftermath of a rattlesnake bite is horrible tissue damage.

On the other hand, Cobras have neurological venom, and probably could digest their prey. But...without venom, would have to be hand fed, because..(as previously very well pointed out)...it's not in their nature to grab and constric.

TRD · 08-25-17, 03:32 PM

Doug;
The thermogenesis of digestion in rattlesnakes | Journal of Experimental Biology

Rattlesnakes can raise their body temperature without the need to thermoregulate during digestion, and this is not related to injecting venom but a by-product of their digestive processes.

Would be interested in the study you talk about, do you have it somewhere? Google is not willing to spit it out.. :\

Doug 351 · 08-25-17, 04:08 PM

TRD: I wish I could. IIRC... Yesterday was Thursday, but I'm not sure. I didn't know about the self-thermoregulator deal...( maybe that was part of what they were studying.)

It was a TV show (PBS) quite a while back. I only have 3 functioning brain cells left, so I have to limit what takes up space!!!! LOL!!!

I wonder, though, how well they could digest non-invenomated prey, even without the freezing temps.

This also has me curious if other snakes have this ability. (Seems like Texas ratsnakes are active almost year round here, but mainly nocturnal, and hard to find basking.)

Doug 351 · 08-26-17, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRD

Doug;
The thermogenesis of digestion in rattlesnakes | Journal of Experimental Biology

Rattlesnakes can raise their body temperature without the need to thermoregulate during digestion, and this is not related to injecting venom but a by-product of their digestive processes.

Would be interested in the study you talk about, do you have it somewhere? Google is not willing to spit it out.. :\

I tried to Google it up myself unsuccessfully. The only thing I can tell you is It's for real, I didn't dream it...and maybe it will be re-aired sometime.

BTW: (I kinda found the same thing you did on thermorregulation)...

But I kept running into how rattlesnakes survive in cold climates, but hibernate.

Sorry.

SSSSnakes · 08-26-17, 04:35 PM

I had acquired a collection of venomoids, both rattlers and cobras. They ate prekilled rats and digested the food fine with no venom.

Just for the record, I don't approve of altering venomous snakes.