What Colour Morph is this?

[dave himself]

We have 2 average sized burms and a retic that's still growing. We would never think of bringing of them out together, not just because they may fight. It's for safety concerns as well. One of these large snakes can turn in an instant from being well behaved to being an absolute psycho. Trying to get one into a viv is a bit of a handful, never mind adding another on to it. The calmest snake we've ever owned is our female retic. She's never shown any aggression what so ever, so calm and a joy to handle. But we wouldn't trust her as far as we could throw a bus, we are definitely not afraid of our snakes, but we treat them with a lot of respect. Dannys idea of seeing if you can get to handle a few adults is a good idea but it won't prepare for keeping one of these large snakes in your own home

[simon07989]

""One of these large snakes can turn in an instant from being well behaved to being an absolute psycho""..

R
eally!!?? But Why would snake just turn like that, surly there would be an obvious avoidable reason?

[dave himself]

Originally Posted by simon07989

""One of these large snakes can turn in an instant from being well behaved to being an absolute psycho""..

R
eally!!?? But Why would snake just turn like that, surly there would be an obvious avoidable reason?

Our female burm Daisy has turned on us a few times with absolutely no warning what so ever. And that's why imo you can never really read a snake. Sure there are times when you know from watching them, that they are getting fed up with being handled and such. But it only takes that one moment and everything goes horribly wrong, that's why you can never trust one these big snakes or let your guard down . This just Moi mate and speaking from my own experience

[Tsubaki]

Originally Posted by simon07989

""One of these large snakes can turn in an instant from being well behaved to being an absolute psycho""..

Really!!?? But Why would snake just turn like that, surly there would be an obvious avoidable reason?

No there won't always be an obvious avoidable reason, and if you can not handle a large reticulated python at its very worst you shouldn't own one to begin with. Of my current reticulated pythons; only one is notably aggressive, so with that one I take extra precautions B.t.w That she was actually really docile as a juvenile, just had a change of heart in how much it likes humans, juvenile behaviour does not guarantee similar adult behaviour. The hormonal change snakes go through reaching sexual maturity can change the animal 100%.

Anyway, even my purple albino who in general is the worlds easiest retic so far has had surprising moments. For example, a few weeks ago; He started bucking to get away and lunged at my feet when I did not let him go under the sink like he was trying to do. I do not ever fully trusts my snakes, and I was prepared for trouble.. So I was able to him back in his enclosure without any harm done to me or him. I didn't even think about it anymore, because to me it's just something that happens sometimes. You have to realise this, that could happen to your boy too. The point is, they're wild animals and will stay wild animals purely driven by instinct. The trigger could be something internal/hormonal of which you have no way of knowing without having experience with it, or even something small like a certain scent that triggers them. You just don't know.

Males during the mating season can pretty much go bananas for no reason, not saying yours will but nobody can guarantee it won't. The reason to have multiple people present to handle a large snake is not for their weight/size, it's in case it flips out and manages to get hold of someone. You need many people to Pull it off. I took a 16/17ish foot retic to a vet, with 4 people trying to hold it down it still shoves us across the room in its panic. And that was just to pull a tooth! Imagen if it had a hold of someone and was refusing to let go, pure panic.

Yes in most cases the animal will pretty much be fine, a bad day here n there, good if you can handle those.. But what if.. Imagen this.. Let's say for comforts sake it's a small adult at 14ft, it's the most perfectly behaved snake ever, barely ever an off day. But it managed to hurt itself in whatever stupid way you can imagine. Even when hurt it's still pretty friendly, just a bit more nervous.. But then you have to give it antibiotics, a daily shot for 7 days in a row. And after day 2 the animal realises what you're going to and resists? More and more each day. You've never dealt with that before, and the first time you're dealing with an aggressive snake.. It's your "so far always friendly" 14ft snake who suddenly seems to be at least twice as big and you start to realise how badly it could hurt you. What then? This isn't a worst case scenario by far, this is a pretty realistic thing that could happen.

I don't mean these as horror stories, I've kept retics for a long time and raised and bred many of them, and I have ALWAYS refused to sell the larger individuals to anyone who had no experience with larger snakes. I kept many snakes working myself up to keep a snake as intelligent and intimidating as a reticulated python, because superdwarves simply weren't for sale around here. Now they are, and retics are more accessible even to the more inexperienced keepers, because even though they might hurt you a SD probably won't kill or mange you.. In contrast to a fully grown mainland or a large adult dwarf.. I do not know how much experience you have with snakes, you just come across as very inexpedience and wanting to grow along with it. If you're really lucky you can grow a long with it, if you're unlucky you'll see why so many people put +/- 2 year old retics and burms back for sale when they reach "puberty".

I don't mean to bash you or crush your spirit, I just want to be realistic here.

[simon07989]

I really feel quite unsettled now and am starting to think I should take him back to the Education Centre where I bought him.

I have been after a Burmese Python for best part of year and located an Education Centre that runs breeding programs for all sorts. Meer Cats, Lizards, Snakes etc etc. They have a lot of Schools go in and run a day where the kids can be educated, handle the animals and reptiles.

Anyway, I have been in a quite a few times and spend time talking to the owner. He sexed my Common Boa for me as I have been calling it a female for the past 2 years and it turned out to be a male. While I was there I explained that I was after a Burmese Python and he said he had some eggs due to hatch next month. We talked big snakes and I put a deposit down on an egg.

I have been in a few times since and always liked the 14ft Male Retic they keep in an 8ft Viv. On the last visit he got the Retic out for me and I held it, put it back in its Viv and alike. My Wife and Kids were present and all handled the snake, asking question after question.

Anyway, the guy said he believed I would be ok with a Retic and I came away with a Hatchling. The only one he had might I add. He said he would still contact me when the Burms hatched and we would discuss further after that.

So, I had spent a lot of time asking, researching and even held and introduced an Adult Retic to my family.

The Education centre also has a rescue section where they rehome snakes. I honestly have put my trust in this guy and believed him that all would be well. Now I am feeling very stressed and worried one of the kids or the wife will get hurt and have made a huge mistake.

Should I take him back, and explain that after all the advice on this forum I have made a mistake? I am told that a Burmese would be better, although still a risk, rather they are more docile.

The reason why I wanted a bigger snake is because I have progressed from Corns to Boa's and now the Boa is at 6/7ft I wanted to progress..

Thank You again for all the advice..

[Tsubaki]

Burms are generally calmer than retics, and are not known to be that quick to bite. However, there are always exceptions! A lot of burms go through a bit of a puberty phase as well, which is in my personal opinion manageable with some persistence. In my experience, having owned multiple individuals of both species. The retics always required more caution, they were smarter and faster and their bites nastier.

Letting kids near free roaming giants is always a bad idea in my eyes, depending on the age obviously. Older teenagers could be taught to handle large snakes with respect and in the presence of multiple adults. Smaller children should be kept away, should not even be in the same room when the snake comes out. A large giant can kill a small child.

Male burms are an option, they still get really big. I'd post my own picture but I currently don't have any adult males, so just look at Handsome Wilson here! This picture is property of Dave himself, also his own animal to which I claim no right other than to call it an awesome snake and I hope he doesn't mind I use it ..






That being said, you wanting a larger snake, and set on a retic. If you're getting nervous about it it might not be the best idea for you though. But also why would you go for a Huge retic? Why not a dwarf? Don't think Tssk, a dwarf.. I wanted a big snake not a dwarf.. Pictured below is an adult dwarf retic male! Not exactly a small snake! My snake, my picture, not me on the picture though hence the blur. Very unflattering picture of Kira in shed, but honestly the only one that shows his size a bit..

Your boy should technically outgrow this guy!




I am NOT trying to deter you from keeping retics, I love retics with a passion they're the greatest thing in the world to me. I'm just making sure, you're really REALLY sure.

[dannybgoode]

There are a number of species that get big without getting potentially unmanageable also as well as those which stay small and are awesome.

And then there is the true super dwarf retic but a pure known locality with known parents will attract a price tag. My madu locality won't get past 6' and will potentially only reach 5' but he was the best part of £400.

As Tsu says be very careful of someone selling a 'dwarf' as they can still get very big.

Let me know if you would like some suggestions of other snakes to research that are impressive whilst being less challenging.

[dave himself]

I've no problem with you using my pics at all mate a thanks for the comments on Wilson

[simon07989]

dannybgoode
"Let me know if you would like some suggestions of other snakes to research that are impressive whilst being less challenging."



Yes Please

[dannybgoode]

The classic Boa constrictor imperator would be a good place to start. Generally calm, nice heavy body and a female can top 8' (and occasionally even longer). Stunning snakes and available in a variety of morphs if that's your thing (personally I don't like morphs but each to their own). Trust me an 8' boa is an impressive creature.

A larger locality carpet python - coastal carpets can top 10' but again generally have a better more predictable temperament than a retic or burm. They can be nippy as youngsters and downright nasty gong through the snake equivalent of puberty but they're unlikely to do serious harm. Again plenty of morphs available.

Something a bit different? Liasis mackloti - the Macklots python. Again a female can top 10' but they stay slender. When they were first available they were generally wild caught and had a reputation for being grumpy but captive bred ones are generally pretty well behaved. Just stunning snakes. I know an excellent breeder in the UK also.

There's an increasing love on this for Liasis olivaceus - the olive python. Females can get very large, 14' + but 12' is more common. Heavier bodied than mackloti but not into retic territory and calmer disposition. Main issue is they're rare and pretty expensive.

It would be remiss not to mention bull snakes. Look at El Ziggy's recent post with his son holding a bull - supreme snakes. They act all aggressive but it's all bluff and bluster and a great introduction to 'angry snakes.

A Thai beauty snake is a manageable handful as well if that makes sense.

Any questions just shout up.

Where are you located btw? The UK's main reptile show is next month and pretty much everything is available there.

[simon07989]

Hi There,

Thank You for the advice on other snake breeds. I have not heard of all of those and so have enjoyed further research on Google. It is nice to read up on snake other than the norm everyone seems to keep.

As you can see from the Picture, I am the owner of a young Hog Island Cross Common Boa, he is a male and 6ft, 3 years old. I am told he will max out at 7.5ft when aged around 4/5.

I have had no problems what so ever raising this guy, and although not bored am ready for a larger snake breed, hence the Retic and interest in Burms.

I am in Stoke on Trent and am told there is a breeders show in Doncaster next month where you can come away with pretty much what ever you fancy??

[dannybgoode]

Nice boa! You'd be surprised though how much bigger a 15'+ snake seems compared to a 7' one. Anything over 12' and they just seem to keep coming out of the viv! Even to an experienced keeper they can be intimidating. Personally I'd be looking at something that generally stays and the 10-12' mark. Ok both my olives and scrubs may exceed this but they'd be outliers if they do.


Yes Donnie (as we locals call it) is worth a visit and yes you can get pretty much anything. There's some excellent breeders there and also some idiots so you need to know how to determine which is which.

If mackloti interests you then I can see if the breeder I know is taking any.

Happy to answer any questions!

[simon07989]

SELLING:

OK, after all the advice against continuing to own a Reticulated Python I have now lost all enjoyment in ownership of this hatchling. I am constantly worrying about how he will bring harm to the family when he is fully grown so have decided to now sell him. I cant see that even one response was for me keeping him so I will have to trust the advice of those who own adults and get rid.

I will return to my original plan and await for the Burmese Egg to hatch.

[trailblazer295]

If the look and colouration of a retic is appealing then I'd suggest going with a super dwarf. My biggest fear around retics is they are very often mislabeled, hatching mainlands listed as yearly dwarfs etc. Higher $$$ and bigger markets. You won't know you've been had until the 8-10 male passed his "max" size 2ft ago and is still growing. I recently bought a 68.75% SD from a reputable breeder. His 62.5% male is 7' and 75% male is 6'. So I know my guy will fall in between that range. I also wanted a young snake so I could grow with him.

When it comes to the big stuff I put my trust in the advice of the members who have already commented.

[dave himself]

My female boa was a bit bigger than yours when we got our first burm. If you've did you're research, and know what you're getting yourself into, you should be fine. Just remember you're bringing a snake into your home that when fully grown is quite capable of killing you, or a member of your family. You'll also end up feeding it rabbits, and it will poo and pee like a horse. Also you WILL need someone else to work with you at all times when handling once the snake is an adult, just incase anything goes wrong. Being bitten by a fairly large burm is like a sledge hammer hitting you with large needless on it, and if you're lucky you'll be bitten around the arm or leg. Mine was on my hand which left me bleeding for around 20 minutes and bruised for over a fortnight. By the way this bite was totally my fault , reaching in to get a water bowl, without tapping the snake first, is not something I have done from that day, and I don't think I'll try it again. Oh and the snake that bit me was the albino in the pic Tsubaki put up. Like I said mate if you're sure that you know what you're doing and bringing into the family home, I say go for it. If you have a doubt in you're head don't get a giant snake. Also you said you've bought an egg so you could end up with a female which can get a tad larger than the male's. Here's a picture of Daisy our female, who's gave us a hard time, every now and then

I have just uploaded these images:


She's of average size around 14ft