Need Help!!

[Aaron_S]

*moderator present*

Be forewarned

[sattva]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

If his dad is 10ft and mom 16ft it is realistic for him to reach somewhere in the middle to low end. Reduced feeding isn't going to stop that, it will only slow it down. If that's too big a snake for you that's fine giants aren't for everyone but maybe it's something best researched prior to purchase.

I researched for a year before I pulled the trigger on this, and I don't regret it for one minute... Like I said I see conflicting info on the subject and I have to say he is stay small for now...

I think my big and your big are to different things... Like I have said may times I am not a small snake kind of guy... I am not worried about being able to handle him, I just don't want him out growing his cage faster then I can afford to graduate him to a larger and lager cage... I'm just not into stuffing him to see how big I can get him! I think it expensive, unhealthy and unnecessary...

[dannybgoode]

To be honest worth a retic the next viv I bought would be his adult one. No need to progress slowly up in size step by step.

The trouble is your statements are slightly contradictory. On one hand you're saying you don't want to power feed and that's good, on the other hand some of what you're saying suggests you're feeding him small meals so that he grows at a pace you can cope with and not at his natural growth rate which is not so good.

He should be fed appropriatelysized meals at the right frequency. No more, no less.

You've also very clearly said that if he gets above 10' you'll have issues housing him but there's a chance he might get bigger than this so you need a contingency if he does.

I get where you're coming from with the small snake thing but sometimes we have to let our circumstances dictate what we keep not our wants. I'd love a Burm-ain't going to happen though.

Finally from a safety point of view read the keeping giants sticky on the giant python section and also Dave Himself's thread on the discussion of safe handling of giants. A 10' + retic is to be respected once he gets that size and it's not just you that will need to be comfortable and more importantly confident in handling him.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

To be honest worth a retic the next viv I bought would be his adult one. No need to progress slowly up in size step by step.

The trouble is your statements are slightly contradictory. On one hand you're saying you don't want to power feed and that's good, on the other hand some of what you're saying suggests you're feeding him small meals so that he grows at a pace you can cope with and not at his natural growth rate which is not so good.

He should be fed appropriatelysized meals at the right frequency. No more, no less.

You've also very clearly said that if he gets above 10' you'll have issues housing him but there's a chance he might get bigger than this so you need a contingency if he does.

I get where you're coming from with the small snake thing but sometimes we have to let our circumstances dictate what we keep not our wants. I'd love a Burm-ain't going to happen though.

Finally from a safety point of view read the keeping giants sticky on the giant python section and also Dave Himself's thread on the discussion of safe handling of giants. A 10' + retic is to be respected once he gets that size and it's not just you that will need to be comfortable and more importantly confident in handling him.

+1 one here. I personally would not own a "mainland" retic if the possibility of the snake getting over 10' was a problem for me. They are not easy to rehome because of their size, and it's harder to screen for good homes because of that.

[dave himself]

To get back to the original post if your putting a small lump in your retic then the size of your feeders are fine there's no need to weigh your snake or feeders, you could do if you wanted to but I don't know of any other retic keepers or breeders who do this

[sattva]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

*moderator present*

Be forewarned

I love your avatar... I bet I have seen that movie 100 times with my granddaughter siting my lap... She has a baby of her own now...
Brings back good memory's for me... Thanks!

[sattva]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

To be honest worth a retic the next viv I bought would be his adult one. No need to progress slowly up in size step by step.

Well here we go with the conflicting story's again... I thought if they were in to large of a cage they become insecure?

The trouble is your statements are slightly contradictory. On one hand you're saying you don't want to power feed and that's good, on the other hand some of what you're saying suggests you're feeding him small meals so that he grows at a pace you can cope with and not at his natural growth rate which is not so good.

Whats a natural growth rate for him?

He should be fed appropriatelysized meals at the right frequency. No more, no less.

Whats are appropriately sized meals at the right frequency for him?

You've also very clearly said that if he gets above 10' you'll have issues housing him but there's a chance he might get bigger than this so you need a contingency if he does.

It's not an exact measurement for me... It may be 12 feet... I don't know... If I have to move when the time comes, then so be it! I will cross that bridge when I come to it...

I get where you're coming from with the small snake thing but sometimes we have to let our circumstances dictate what we keep not our wants. I'd love a Burm-ain't going to happen though.

That's you! and your not fully aware of my circumstances...

Finally from a safety point of view read the keeping giants sticky on the giant python section and also Dave Himself's thread on the discussion of safe handling of giants. A 10' + retic is to be respected once he gets that size and it's not just you that will need to be comfortable and more importantly confident in handling him.

Ya I'v read most of this "twice now" I'm not sure what your point is here!

[dannybgoode]

You're right. I'm not aware of your circumstances. Sometimes though on forums it is necessary to make assumptions and at times raise points that the other person may or may not have thought of.

I hope by now from my general demeanour you can tell I do not mean offence to anyone but there are times when it is unclear from someone's posts (often across many threads) that makes me feel it worth raising certain potential issues and discussion points.

My point about safe handing was raised because you mentioned you were perfectly comfortable about handling your retic but made no mention of anyone else. Now, there's no particular reason you should necessarily but because it's such a vital issue I thought it best to raise it.

The same is the case with the rest of my post. As I say it is not clear from what you have put over a number of posts and threads exactly what your abilities, plans, desires, dreams-call them what got will-are so I was simply highlighting some areas you may not have considered. If you have fine but it would not be in the animals interests (or yours) to simply assume that to be the case and to stay silent on some very important issues.

As for the viv thing so long as the snake has plenty of hides there is no reason it could not go in its adult viv. There may be some particularly nervous species of snake that this would not apply to but a retic is not one.

As I say I mean absolutely no offence to anyone but we would never learn and never be challenged if we did not debate and discuss the issues pertinent to our hobby.

[sattva]

I want to apologize to Jays reptile... I did intend to hikack your thread but this how we seem to learn...
dannybgoode;1004894

]You're right. I'm not aware of your circumstances. Sometimes though on forums it is necessary to make assumptions and at times raise points that the other person may or may not have thought of.

Yes, and I appreciate constructive criticism and I don't mean to be disrespectful here but I am a 65 year old man and i'll chain an elephant up in my snake room and take care of it if I want to...

I hope by now from my general demeanour you can tell I do not mean offence to anyone but there are times when it is unclear from someone's posts (often across many threads) that makes me feel it worth raising certain potential issues and discussion points.

I can appreciate that!

My point about safe handing was raised because you mentioned you were perfectly comfortable about handling your retic but made no mention of anyone else. Now, there's no particular reason you should necessarily but because it's such a vital issue I thought it best to raise it.

My wife is my back up but honestly! To die by snake strangulation is sounding better then the alternatives; diabetes, heart disease, cancer... ya death by snake maybe a better way to go... So If I'm going to make it look like an accident so she can collect the insurance I can't talk about it... Mums the word...

The same is the case with the rest of my post. As I say it is not clear from what you have put over a number of posts and threads exactly what your abilities, plans, desires, dreams-call them what got will-are so I was simply highlighting some areas you may not have considered. If you have fine but it would not be in the animals interests (or yours) to simply assume that to be the case and to stay silent on some very important issues.

It's cool dude! But like I said, I don't take this responsibility lightly... I researched it for a year before I pulled the trigger... You don't have to worry about the animals interests they have a room devoted to them and I tend to their every need...

As for the viv thing so long as the snake has plenty of hides there is no reason it could not go in its adult viv. There may be some particularly nervous species of snake that this would not apply to but a retic is not one.

I haven't heard that before...Are you absolutely sure? That would save me some money!

As I say I mean absolutely no offence to anyone but we would never learn and never be challenged if we did not debate and discuss the issues pertinent to our hobby.

That's why I got George; I needed a challenge... But i'ts Cool, No offence taken... Now I need to go elephant shopping, we'll talk later...

[bigsnakegirl785]

Yup, the key is clutter not space. You need to provide cover in a way that is most efficient for that individual. If it's defensive, refuses to eat, or whatever, add hides, change the way you're offering cover like add some vines instead of relying on hides, etc.

As far as feeding, whatever will leave a lump and disappear in a couple days, I generally use the 15-20% rule for younger ones simply because a retic could digest and pass a meal 25-30% just as easily as a smaller and the bulges aren't much different in size because of the speed with which they digest. I do it just to make sure I'm not overfeeding, which in a retic generally translates to more length, but still. Don't want to push them too far.

[sattva]

bigsnakegirl785;1004913]Yup, the key is clutter not space. You need to provide cover in a way that is most efficient for that individual. If it's defensive, refuses to eat, or whatever, add hides, change the way you're offering cover like add some vines instead of relying on hides, etc.

That's funny you said that, George got a new vine like bush just yesterday... His seems to love it...

As far as feeding, whatever will leave a lump and disappear in a couple days, I generally use the 15-20% rule for younger ones simply because a retic could digest and pass a meal 25-30% just as easily as a smaller and the bulges aren't much different in size because of the speed with which they digest. I do it just to make sure I'm not overfeeding, which in a retic generally translates to more length, but still. Don't want to push them too far.

I have to admit I am a little gun shy on larger rats... When I first got him I give him a small rat and I thought he was going to split his lip, or choke him to death... It scared the hell out of me...
On a light note my little Crystal took her first fuzzy rat tonight... yaaaa!

[macandchz]

i agree with trailblazer. all things should be considered before getting into the care of the really big snakes. how many times have we read about people letting their snakes loose because they couldn't handle their care? i think turning a snake a snake loose to fend for themselves is almost equal to a death sentence. very few get rescued.

[sattva]

Originally Posted by macandchz

i agree with trailblazer. all things should be considered before getting into the care of the really big snakes. how many times have we read about people letting their snakes loose because they couldn't handle their care? i think turning a snake a snake loose to fend for themselves is almost equal to a death sentence. very few get rescued.

I agree with trailblazer also! but all he has said is...

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

Small rats for snake under 3ft seems a bit much. I'll let more experienced keepers chime in though.

And who is talking about turning any snakes lose! I'll tell you! This is what makes these forums look bad... Just a bunch of options with no concept of what constructive criticism is... Once again I must apologize to the originator of the tread for getting off topic...

[trailblazer295]

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

If his dad is 10ft and mom 16ft it is realistic for him to reach somewhere in the middle to low end. Reduced feeding isn't going to stop that, it will only slow it down. If that's too big a snake for you that's fine giants aren't for everyone but maybe it's something best researched prior to purchase.

I also said.

Originally Posted by sattva

I agree with trailblazer also! but all he has said is...

And who is talking about turning any snakes lose! I'll tell you! This is what makes these forums look bad... Just a bunch of options with no concept of what constructive criticism is... Once again I must apologize to the originator of the tread for getting off topic...

[Tsubaki]

I have refrained a bit from responding here because I have not had time to write an elaborate response. I still don't really have time but I feel like trying to speak my mind anyway. Simply put, Reticulated pythons are not like most other pythons.. They do very well on large prey is my experience, better than on small meals more frequently though there is some variables I personally take into account. Trying to type out my feeding method, excuse any mistakes I'm very tired it's been a long day.

First of, my way of feeding retics differs a lot from the way i feed any other species, and i might have more ' rules / guidelines' than most people who just go on a steady interval so it is a bit more work, especially if you're not used to this kind of slow feeding and are new to the game... I always feed retics under a year old a meal that is 1,5x the girth of their body.. Then later once they are well established and gained some size, I change their feeding schedule depending on how they behave. It's not as easy to type out as I made this feeding schedule over the years and have adjusted it countless of times based on experiences.. But i will try anyway.
I feed them: 0-6 months once a week.
Then: 6-12 months once every 10 days.
12/15 months and up - once every 14 days if they forage- less if they do not.
After 12/15 months, it all depends on the animal, I slowly increase the time in between their meals all the way into adulthood (6 years+) to a couple of weeks, each of them having their own pace/rhythm. I barely ever weighed anything i feed to them, eyeing it is enough for me, Retics are quite forgiving when it comes to size and a little variance isn't bad. As soon as i see a yearling or older foraging, and it has been long enough since it had eaten last (Whichever minimum they have at that time, animal specific), i will defrost a fitting prey and feed them the day after. (With Foraging i mean Actively hunt around their enclosure for prey, not feeding response once bothered or exploring behaviour, there is quite a difference but it might take a while to see the difference) If i do not catch them foraging, i have a maximum amount of time before i will feed them (18 days for well established yearlings,). If the animal eats at the quickest intervals, they get a prey about the size of their girth, if they forage slower i feed 1,5x or thicker. This way the snake would get whatever way of feeding they preferred. Many of them rather ate rather often as babies, but some ate slowly.. My observing was that mainly animals over the age of 3 picked the wider spacing between meals. I never had a fat or skinny retic. In my personal opinion this is a pretty natural way of feeding, in the wild they go foraging when hungry unless food happens to walk into range They do not eat on a 100% fixed schedule, so i won't feed them on a 100% fixed schedule.. I have a few things i keep in mind with this schedule:
- I always feed at night, on feeding night any foraging behaviours of the ones that did not actively search earlier is ignored for that night (They smell food)
-Males get a bigger maximum amount of time in between feeding, and are fed slightly less in general after reaching 12months.
-In wintertime I let them space the minimum amount of time as well.
-Females i plan to breed get 1,5x sized prey at the quickest interval for a while.
-Fussy eaters i always offer at the minimum amount of time regardless of age until i consider them well established.
I don't have a little booklet to keep track of all these things any-more, as i no longer have 40+ adults.. I keep track of now i when they last ate, and the rest is done on autopilot.

Originally Posted by sattva

I am new at this also... ' ----' It almost creates no lump what so every...But then again I want my guy to stay as small as possible and still remain health... '---' I just don't want him out growing his cage faster then I can afford to graduate him to a larger and lager cage... I'm just not into stuffing him to see how big I can get him! I think it expensive, unhealthy and unnecessary. ' --' Yes, and I appreciate constructive criticism and I don't mean to be disrespectful here but I am a 65 year old man and i'll chain an elephant up in my snake room and take care of it if I want to...

I consider my method slow feeding, and i can really appreciate everyone that's not wanting to stuff their retics. However, i read through your posts several times and though the idea of slow feeding is great, i believe your method and reasoning is flawed. This topic is about a retics feeding schedule, so it is not that much off-topic. I'm not going to quote a ton of things, i think i have captured the basics of what i wanted to reply to.

It's very hard to visually tell if a retic is getting a bit underweight, especially with babies. They can look slim when they're having a length spurt and can look chubby when gaining some width. It all balances out in the end but you shouldn't just change your feeding rhythm based on that imo, especially not at that age. Every 10 days does not seem too little, i would not call that underfeeding that quickly. But it does seem like you're feeding him too small rats. I would feed larger prey that last him longer, rather than small rats more often, or maybe try what i do even.. Though I do not expect anyone to do that. A 5ft retic eating small rats sounds very off to me, if he is going to get big he will get big, you should not slow him down. And slow feeding to make him fit into an enclosure longer, just rubs me the wrong way. I never get a snake for which I do not have the future housing already planned.

It is not my snake, no we/I can not stop you from getting your elephant and chaining it up in your snake room. Age and gender is not important to me, i do not care if you are a 65 year old man or a 100 year old purple canary.. I care about the snakes, mainly retics, if i spot what i consider bad advice, especially being shared on a topic of someone asking advice.. I will engage in a discussion, as that's what forums are for. You yourself can take whichever advice you want, and try whichever method you want. But until you have established your method works (on multiple individuals), maybe reconsider dismissing other comments with an 'I can do what I want' reply. Because as you yourself said you are new to it. And my personal opinion of your method so far is non advisable as it is almost borderline stunting (Your current feeding isn't horrible, but combined with your reasoning being the definition of purposely stunting I call it ill advisable). If the animal is going to get big, it is going to get big. I personally consider my way fairly minimal, and yours would be below minimum.

Originally Posted by sattva

' ---' I can't get my guys to sit still in my lap, much less on a scale... I guess I could do a large tub and take a tare and all that but then I have to have a place to set this up... I don't know?

Easiest way imo is to get a hand luggage scale (one with the hook where you hang a bag underneath), put snake in bag and pick up bag. This will work at least until they grow past 15kg or 33lbs, which is how far my luggage scale goes anyway. After that there is no real reason to weigh them for me, unless I suspect an issue. but If you are curious, just hold them and stand on a human-scale and subtract your own weight .

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Feeding conservatively isn't bad, but feeding conservatively shouldn't be with a smaller end size in mind but a healthier, steadier growth rate to get to that point.

Exactly, well worded.

Originally Posted by sattva

Well here we go with the conflicting story's again... I thought if they were in to large of a cage they become insecure?

I have only seen one truly insecure retic in my life, most of my retics stopped using their hides once they passed the baby stage. Not every snake is the same, like already has been said.. It is not the size of the cage that bothers them (Nature is pretty big) It is the lack of cover that might bother them.