Housing more then one snake!

sattva · 09-13-16, 06:24 PM

More dumb questions here... Can you house ball pythons together? What species of snakes can be houses together?

**Tsubaki** · 09-13-16, 06:28 PM

I would advise against housing any kind of snake together, even the species that seem to do alright together i still would not advise it..

sattva · 09-13-16, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

I would advise against housing any kind of snake together, even the species that seem to do alright together i still would not advise it..

How come? Do they fight?

**Tsubaki** · 09-13-16, 06:47 PM

There is a small risk of cannibalism, males can get into fights. Males can harass females, the presence of another snake could be a stress-factor. Feeding time gets harder, you can not feed them both in the enclosure. You will have to move a snake who has just eaten, which is not beneficial. If one gets sick the other(s) might too, also if you find a regurge or a weird stool or anything similar you will not know which animal it is from. I'm sure i can think of more reasons, but there are plenty reasons not to do this.

serpentgirl123 · 09-13-16, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

There is a small risk of cannibalism, males can get into fights. Males can harass females, the presence of another snake could be a stress-factor. Feeding time gets harder, you can not feed them both in the enclosure. You will have to move a snake who has just eaten, which is not beneficial. If one gets sick the other(s) might too, also if you find a regurge or a weird stool or anything similar you will not know which animal it is from. I'm sure i can think of more reasons, but there are plenty reasons not to do this.

^^^^ yup all of this.

Along the feeding theme, moving a recently fed snake is dangerous in itself, more likely to get bit (also if you had a full belly, would you want someone picking you up), but also putting the snake back with its' housemates.

I naively did keep two of mine together (for some time, but separated them nearly a decade ago) and it was a dangerous time around food. I have had one of them nip/bite the other snake when I was putting it back. Luckily, it didn't cause any damage, but the food smell was still in the air and on the other snake=food mode.

As I got more knowledgeable and experience, I realized that for me, the only "benefits" (saving on cost of supplies) cohabitation was not for the snakes, but me. I realized how selfish and naive I was and immediately separated and kept all the snakes separate. Surprise, surprise, the stress and any feeding issues went away almost immediately. And I knew when one got sick, who it was and didn't have any more outlandish vet bills for having to treat 2-3 snakes at a time, some of which probably didn't need it, but better safe than sorry.

But that is just me and will only keep 2+ snakes together (briefly) when I get into breeding.

bigsnakegirl785 · 09-13-16, 09:23 PM

Yup agree with Tsubaki here, no matter the species keep them separate, it's just too high of a risk and makes caring for them more difficult. An enclosure large enough for 2 snakes would technically take up more space than giving each snake its own enclosure, since two separate enclosures can be stacked or kept in separate areas. An enclosure should be large enough to fit each individual's enclosure size within itself. 2 4' snakes would need a 6'x2' or something of similar dimensions, 2 6' snakes would need an 8'x4' or something of similar dimensions, etc. etc. Even with as much space as you could possibly give them, they still have access to each other and they can still kill/injure/eat the other. Even just breeding snakes can be dangerous to one or the other snake.

dannybgoode · 09-13-16, 11:17 PM

Not a suggestion for the op as stich more for my knowledge but can't garter snakes be kept together? I thought they were one of the very few species that did well cohabiting.

RAD House · 09-14-16, 12:00 AM

Ball pythons no, but garters yes. The majority of garter breeders I have encountered keep them in communal living situations. I have a pair of males that do really well together and do seem to feel more comfortable when around one another. You need to take a little more care during feeding time, but it is not unmanageable.

SnakeyJay · 09-14-16, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Not a suggestion for the op as stich more for my knowledge but can't garter snakes be kept together? I thought they were one of the very few species that did well cohabiting.

Yep garters can be kept together, and there's actually even a few benefits for the snake. But it does still carry its own risks. I've got a male T.s.infernalis coming for my female, maybe even an extra female to make a trio... However I'm still undecided how they'll be kept once they catch upto my original female in size..

I may still keep them separate as I don't want the male pestering both females every breeding season... I'd like to alternate and give each female at least a year off to regain their condition and to rest.

Roman · 09-14-16, 03:03 PM

Since every reply so far is contra housing snakes together (and with good arguments why you should not do it) I will add some examples from my personal experience of keeping snakes together as an alternative point of view…

To answer your original question, I have no personal experience with ball pythons, I suppose you might be able to keep a (proven) pair or two females together, two males could result in serious territorial fighting. However, I would not recommend to keep a pair together year round, because it might result in a lot of stress for the female (and probably the male as well) if they create several clutches per year.

There are some requirements if you want to keep more than one snake in an enclosure. First of all, the enclosure has to be big enough to provide sufficient room for all inhabitants. It needs enough hiding places for all of your snakes in different temperature zones of the enclosure. Basically, what you need for one snake you would need for each snake in the enclosure. You don’t necessarily need twice as many hiding places, but the hides you have should be big enough to house all your snakes without crowding them.

You should have a spare enclosure available in case something goes wrong and you have to separate your snakes after all.

There are some combinations which definitely won’t work. In a lot of species the males are very territorial and will fight each other to drive the weaker male off. In an enclosure it can’t get away, so such a fight might result in the death of one of your snakes. The green tree python (Morelia viridis) is an example for this, two males in the same enclosure will rest peacefully during the day but will literally shred themselves to tiny pieces during their first night together.

I wouldn’t keep any snake in pairs which is known to feed on other snakes like kingsnakes or milksnakes, even if there are many reports of keeping them together without issues, but they might attack the other snake with no warning even after years without any problems.

There are several snakes you have to keep as pairs if you want to breed them. My tiger rat snakes (Spilotes pullatus) are very territorial snakes, they stay in the same area for a long time. So in order to create the right condition for breeding them the male and the female(s) have to be in the same enclosure for a long time to give them enough time to settle in. Other snakes show a complex social behavior, the male will even court the female (look for the Montpellier snake Malpolon monspessulanus for details)

I keep the following snakes in pairs or groups, some of them already for several years

1.2 tiger rat snakes (Spilotes pullatus)
1.2 red-tailed green rat snake (Gonyosoma oxycephalum)
0.2 Baron’s racer (Philodryas baroni), my male is just too small to add him to the females right now, but he will join them in the future
2.0 Yellow-bellied Puffing Snakes (Spilotes sulphureus)

I will also put my pair of Aesculapian snakes (Zamenis longissimus) together as soon as the female grows to a similar size as my male.

I will also keep my Eastern Montpellier snake (Malpolon insignitus) as a pair or even a group when I find a female for my male.

Roman

sirtalis · 09-14-16, 04:40 PM

You can but there really is no reason to keep any species together, in all honesty they do best by themselves. I have a a friend who keeps his diamond back rattlers together without an issue

bigsnakegirl785 · 09-14-16, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Not a suggestion for the op as stich more for my knowledge but can't garter snakes be kept together? I thought they were one of the very few species that did well cohabiting.

In my very honest opinion, no. They are solitary animals. Gathering together during the winter to keep warm and then the breeding frenzy right after does not make them social animals and they should not be kept together outside of breeding. Outside of brumation and breeding, they are solitary. The only time you're going to find them together outside of that is in heavily populated areas. Many species have have reports of cannibalism, and you still can't properly care for ill snakes when kept together.

Bandit · 09-14-16, 07:00 PM

People have successfully done this in many instances. Personally, I won't ever do it unless I get back into keeping garters/ribbons. There may be a couple small, subterranean snakes that I'd keep together, but I won't get into that.

I'll say this...at the nature center I used to work at we had a few enclosures with multiple snakes in them. Three large tanks each housing three corns; a large enclosure housing two (sibling) black x everglades rat snakes; and one with three eastern garter snakes. We never had any problems whatsoever.

My personal opinion on it is to keep them separate if you can. I agree with pretty much all of the reasons given above. If I'm going to buy a snake and care for it, I'm not going to put it at risk for any of the aforementioned reasons. But again, I would make an exception with garters. They've done very well for me (and plenty of people I know) in groups without any incidents, assuming you are attentive during feeding time.