too big a cage?

[Creep]

so josh finally contacted me back after i told him all the temps, size, etc. of the tank that i'd mentioned in the other thread in regards to the skin and bone monitor he sent me... he's saying a 6ft tall, 6ft long, and 4ft wide is too big for a peach throat monitor nearly 2ft in size and i need in a much smaller enclosure with a few hides and a water dish... don't mean to be rude but i kinda think that's bull... since peachies do climb, any monitor needs a "dish", if you can call it that, large enough to entirely soak itself, etc.

what do you all think? he claims it was eating like a monster, quote "pounding" down pinkies, crickets, and superworms, but when it arrives, and a couple days after, it takes no interest at all. haven't seen any poop either.

edit: for the basking stack in the last thread, it's moved out from the cool side to basking up at the top of the stack. also, it is flicking its tongue a lot and will zip off at a moment's notice, so it's not like it's not lively..
though it will just sit on your hand like there's no care in the world(had to make some adjustments and had to move it)... the first day it sat there and wouldn't flee for nothing, now it will run off if it feels like it, so maybe it has eaten some crickets that was in the enclosure. what do you all think?

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by Creep

so josh finally contacted me back after i told him all the temps, size, etc. of the tank that i'd mentioned in the other thread in regards to the skin and bone monitor he sent me... he's saying a 6ft tall, 6ft long, and 4ft wide is too big for a peach throat monitor nearly 2ft in size and i need in a much smaller enclosure with a few hides and a water dish... don't mean to be rude but i kinda think that's bull... since peachies do climb, any monitor needs a "dish", if you can call it that, large enough to entirely soak itself, etc.

what do you all think? he claims it was eating like a monster, quote "pounding" down pinkies, crickets, and superworms, but when it arrives, and a couple days after, it takes no interest at all. haven't seen any poop either.

edit: for the basking stack in the last thread, it's moved out from the cool side to basking up at the top of the stack. also, it is flicking its tongue a lot and will zip off at a moment's notice, so it's not like it's not lively..
though it will just sit on your hand like there's no care in the world(had to make some adjustments and had to move it)... the first day it sat there and wouldn't flee for nothing, now it will run off if it feels like it, so maybe it has eaten some crickets that was in the enclosure. what do you all think?

Too big of a cage - complete bull. Provide hides and places to get away and cage size could be 100 x 100 feet. The natural habitat is a pretty large area and they do pretty well in it.

If you can see his bones and he doesnt have a thick tail / strong base , then he wasn't pounding anything except probably his head against the glass trying to commit suicide :P

You should have a pool , not a water dish. They really enjoy not just soaking, but actually swimming around and even sleeping in it.

He prob hung out on your hand because he was cold, sluggish and out of energy. Him basking and flicking his tongue / being skittish is a very good sign. Leave some food on a dish and go away, hopefully now that hes basking he will have an appetite. Try a fuzzy mouse or 2

Keep the heat high and provide plenty of whole prey items and hopefully he will recover just fine.

[Creep]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Too big of a cage - complete bull. Provide hides and places to get away and cage size could be 100 x 100 feet. The natural habitat is a pretty large area and they do pretty well in it.

If you can see his bones and he doesnt have a thick tail / strong base , then he wasn't pounding anything except probably his head against the glass trying to commit suicide :P

You should have a pool , not a water dish. They really enjoy not just soaking, but actually swimming around and even sleeping in it.

He prob hung out on your hand because he was cold, sluggish and out of energy. Him basking and flicking his tongue / being skittish is a very good sign. Leave some food on a dish and go away, hopefully now that hes basking he will have an appetite. Try a fuzzy mouse or 2

Keep the heat high and provide plenty of whole prey items and hopefully he will recover just fine.

haha lol!

yeah, i thought so. i mean the monitor is wild caught... no such thing as too big for this fella. i'll set out a dish deep enough to keep superworms and waxworms inside. it's been eyeballing the fish but still has yet to attack, does love a good soaking and swimming around, though.

as far as pinkies, it was on live. buying live pinks here is pretty much impossible 'cause the stores want to raise them and sell them off as pets, not feeders. i am working on breeding them, though. once its converted to f/t i'll probably freeze them at varying sizes after snapping the neck.

last night I tried to get some frozen pinks to thaw as an overnight offering. i know it's unlikely it would go for it since it hunts live, but i had to try... sold out. I refuse to leave live prey overnight, just asking for trouble if it doesn't kill it. best i have are mice a little older than hoppers, can definitely defend.

i tried offering the smallest one, it would strike but never landed a hit 'cause the mouse ran. Tried dazing the mouse, mouse laid there and twitched, got up and wobbled, no interest at all. Only seems to be interested if it's fully conscious and unphased.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by Creep

haha lol!

yeah, i thought so. i mean the monitor is wild caught... no such thing as too big for this fella. I'll set out a dish deep enough to keep superworms and waxworms inside. it's been eyeballing the fish but still has yet to attack, does love a good soaking and swimming around, though.

as far as pinkies, it was on live. buying live pinks here is pretty much impossible 'cause the stores want to raise them and sell them off as pets, not feeders. i am working on breeding them, though. once its converted to f/t i'll probably freeze them at varying sizes after snapping the neck.

last night I tried to get some frozen pinks to thaw as an overnight offering. i know it's unlikely it would go for it since it hunts live, but i had to try... sold out. I refuse to leave live prey overnight, just asking for trouble if it doesn't kill it. best i have are mice a little older than hoppers, can definitely defend.

No such thing as a monitor that only eats live or needs to be converted to frozen thawed. He might take a minute to realize that its food, but they aren't stupid. Once he realizes its edible, down the hatch it goes. Try to leave some frozen thawed in there.If you can't find any, just kill a pinky, freeze it then dethaw it just to prove that he will still eat it. Keep the basking at 120 - 130 and leave the mice over night. If hes basking, roaming, tongue flicking, he will prob eat them eventually. Don't worry about them 'going bad' overnight, thats not an issue really.

And yea, don't leave live prey. Live pinkys aren't a big deal, but live mice can be an issue not only for him, but for you. If he gets into the habit of hunting and ripping things apart, some people say it makes for a more aggressive monitor in the end.

[Creep]

Originally Posted by smy_749

No such thing as a monitor that only eats live or needs to be converted to frozen thawed. He might take a minute to realize that its food, but they aren't stupid. Once he realizes its edible, down the hatch it goes. Try to leave some frozen thawed in there.If you can't find any, just kill a pinky, freeze it then dethaw it just to prove that he will still eat it. Keep the basking at 120 - 130 and leave the mice over night. If hes basking, roaming, tongue flicking, he will prob eat them eventually. Don't worry about them 'going bad' overnight, thats not an issue really.

And yea, don't leave live prey. Live pinkys aren't a big deal, but live mice can be an issue not only for him, but for you. If he gets into the habit of hunting and ripping things apart, some people say it makes for a more aggressive monitor in the end.

ahhh, ok then. yeah, pinks pose no threat, defenseless, but the ones i could find definitely do.

been watching her while typing. she's basked for about 20 minutes, got up for maybe a minute and roamed around the pond, then slinked back up to the top of the stack to bask. i'm using a 65 watt halogen flood light, as i know some people use those. is that strong enough? i just find that regular reptile bulbs don't hit the temp that i need for a basking spot.

i wanted a 75watt, but all they had was a 65 and then a 90-120(?). figured that may put out too much heat.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by Creep

ahhh, ok then. yeah, pinks pose no threat, defenseless, but the ones i could find definitely do.

been watching her while typing. she's basked for about 20 minutes, got up for maybe a minute and roamed around the pond, then slinked back up to the top of the stack to bask. i'm using a 65 watt halogen flood light, as i know some people use those. is that strong enough? i just find that regular reptile bulbs don't hit the temp that i need for a basking spot.

i wanted a 75watt, but all they had was a 65 and then a 90-120(?). figured that may put out too much heat.

65 watt is higher than what most of us use. I use 50 watts, if you need more heat just put a second one next to it and that way the basking spot will be long enough that he doesn't have to adjust to have his full body on the spot. Even a few 45 watts in a row works well. Imo if hes basking for 20 straight minutes then the temps might be a bit low. If you increase the temps, you will find that he basks less, and does more monitor business in the mean time. I would get 2 x 50 watts for more surface area and more humidity.

Also, about whether its strong enough or not. It depends on how far away from the surface of the basking spot it is. Are they mounted above the enclosure or hanging inside it? Can't remember if I asked you if you use a temp gun to measure surface temps or not as well ?

[infernalis]

what does your temp gun say the basking is??

and I concur, no such thing as too big of a cage for monitors.

If I could afford it, mine would have 20 feet by 50 feet with a 10 foot roof.

[Creep]

i think my thermometer may be messed up, it's digital. it says 71 but i know tht's defintely not right. i'll go find another and give it time to adjust.

at any rate, he contacted me back and said i could send it back by tuesday for a refund... two problems... no mailing offices are open today, sunday... and tomorrow is memorial day... and i told him straight up that it took weeks for this monitr to get in this condition and it's ridiculous that, excluding the money i've spent trying to get it to eat on various prey items, that i would have sunk in $325 and only be getting back $225.

i'm about to leave to go grocery shopping and probably get some more flood lights while i'm at it... i'm hoping i come back to an empty food dish, that would really settle my nerves.

right know it's climbing all over everything and roaming around, so that's really promising. not basking anymore, just crawling all over the plants, decorations, etc.

[Creep]

HAHA omg he is so full of bull

so that last email i sent? he responded just now saying he can't see it on his phone, that, supposedly, it won't download and he'll check it on TUESDAY when he gets back in his office.... wow... just wow...

[murrindindi]

Hi, if the thermometer isn`t working you have no idea what the temps are, neither do you mention what the humidity range is?
Pinky mice aren`t very nutritious because there`s very little protein and the skeleton hasn`t formed, you can cut a frozen fuzzy in half along the length, then obviously thaw before feeding. Can you buy a cheap camera and take a few photos of the monitor and setup? I think two halogen floods would be better, place them a couple of cm apart (maybe 40 or 50w).
Varanids recognise non moving items as food, they don`t need time to "learn", they have extremely sophisticated chemosensory capabilities!

[Creep]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi, if the thermometer isn`t working you have no idea what the temps are, neither do you mention what the humidity range is?
Pinky mice aren`t very nutritious because there`s very little protein and the skeleton hasn`t formed, you can cut a frozen fuzzy in half along the length, then obviously thaw before feeding. Can you buy a cheap camera and take a few photos of the monitor and setup? I think two halogen floods would be better, place them a couple of cm apart (maybe 40 or 50w).
Varanids recognise non moving items as food, they don`t need time to "learn", they have extremely sophisticated chemosensory capabilities!

well i got the thermometer wet... dunno if that would do anything... but the 65w halogen flood light is roughly... 8 - 10 inches from the top level of the basking stack.

he'd said it was eating pinkies, but i guess i can slice the mice i have now in half... though that sounds really gross, but gotta do what ya gotta do. i'll see about getting a cheap camera or getting a friend over here. they got fancy phones or some sort probably.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Creep

well i got the thermometer wet... dunno if that would do anything... but the 65w halogen flood light is roughly... 8 - 10 inches from the top level of the basking stack.

he'd said it was eating pinkies, but i guess i can slice the mice i have now in half... though that sounds really gross, but gotta do what ya gotta do. i'll see about getting a cheap camera or getting a friend over here. they got fancy phones or some sort probably.

Getting it wet might cause problems (I`ve never tried ), best to replace it though, just in case.
Whether the seller was feeding pinkies of not doesn`t make them any more nutritious (from your description, I doubt the animal was even eating). Photos will be a great help if you can get them. If you cut the fuzzies in half while still frozen, it`s easy!

[Creep]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Getting it wet might cause problems (I`ve never tried ), best to replace it though, just in case.
Whether the seller was feeding pinkies of not doesn`t make them any more nutritious (from your description, I doubt the animal was even eating). Photos will be a great help if you can get them.

yeah, i really doubt it too... he insists it was eating when they had it and that my enclosure is way too big and he's absolutely not a liar... this kind of crap really angers me, to put it lightly.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by Creep

yeah, i really doubt it too... he insists it was eating when they had it and that my enclosure is way too big and he's absolutely not a liar... this kind of crap really angers me, to put it lightly.

Go to home depot and pick up a infrared laser temperature reader (theres a few models starting at about 27 dollars for reading the surface temps , this is a must have tool for a keeping a varanid)

Then go to walmart or even at home depot they will have them but for a bit more money, and pick up a digital hygro/thermometer for the hot end and the cool end. They will tell you what the min and max that both humidity and temperature reach. Then grab a zoo med prob thermometer for your 'pool'

You will have an accurate reading for just about everything of importance.

[Creep]

ok, i'll look into that.

so now he's threatening me. sure, i said i'd give hm a bad review to the communities i'm a part of because i'm very dissatisfied that he's essentially blaming me, calling names, andsold an unfit animal and that he keepsignoring the fact it takes several weeks to get in the condition it is.

he calls me a know it all and says he's been more than generous by extending the guarantee to allow me to ship it back and to keep commenting and see where that lands me, as if to threaten me...

i'm sorry, but the guarantee isn't the issue, the issue is that he lied to me about the health of the animal and proceeded to blame me for it.