Odd behavior.

TheSuppishOne · 04-29-13, 06:29 PM

I don't know if this is normal or not, but I went to give him a nice warm (80 degree) soak in the tub yesterday because that stupid last piece of shed really bothers me, and he was really calm at first. For a minute or so, he just kinda floated in the water with his head up. Then, out of nowhere, he started freaking out. He climbed up the side of the tub and just stared at me. I put my hand close to him and he wanted to wrap around me. The water temp was perfect, so I have no idea what that was all about.

The weirder thing, though, is that when he freaks out, he does somersaults. Full on, upside down, twisting and turning. It looks like what people describe in Jag CPs as wobble. However, if I turn him upside down, he rights himself immediately. Is this a neuro issue other than wobble, or is my little guy just a weirdo?

Video: Flint in the tub - YouTube

(Just as a disclaimer, I only nudged him back into the water because AS SOON as I pulled my phone out to record what he was doing, he stopped doing it and rested against the wall. Kinda like when you take your computer to get fixed, it suddenly works again.)

smy_749 · 04-29-13, 06:33 PM

Thats not normal. Is this the new boa that you made the thread about getting from las vegas exotics?

Starbuck · 04-29-13, 07:17 PM

it seems as though he is exhibiting the same behavior (rolling/C-ing backwards in the water) to a lesser extent as he is resting against the side of the tub, do you notice that as well? What i mean is that it looks as though he is exhibiting some mild star-gazing/equilibrium issues, like when a person has had too much to drink and rolls their head around?
Do you notice any behavior like that when he is just in his viv? i.e. does he keep his head elevated for extended periods, or seem to have difficulty moving around?
If so, i would make an appointment with a reptile vet as soon as possible, and bring the video as well. If not, it *could* just be a weird thing he does because he feels unbalanced in the tub. consider putting a piece of viv furniture in there with him so he has some traction/something to hold onto, while still in contact with the water?
Also, contact the breeder and ask him what he thinks?
Sorry i can't help you more :/

rmfsnakes32 · 04-29-13, 08:11 PM

That turning upside down behaviour is not normal I have soaked my Boas many times and have never seen them do that. Contact a vet asap.

TheSuppishOne · 04-29-13, 08:15 PM

Yes, this is the snake I received from Ken at Exotic Pets LV. He has displayed this behavior since I got him, and no, it's not just in the tub. He stargazes in his viv as well. It has toned down quite a bit since the first day, but is still there for sure (less stressed?). He sometimes inverts his head entirely. For the most part though, he doesn't have any trouble moving around in his enclosure.

Thing is, when I originally saw this, I asked about it and looked for other threads on the topic. What the consensus seemed to be was that if I turned him upside down and he righted himself immediately, there were no issues. Plus, his strikes for food haven't missed yet.

Terranaut · 04-29-13, 08:32 PM

Wow that's almost like a Jag Carpet with bad nero issues. I definitely think there is something wrong. Looks to me like he is stressing about the tub and not the water. The high stress is bringing this out. I would accept it or return it but IMHO your snake has an issue that is not going to go away

Call the breeder ASAP. Show Ken the video.

TheSuppishOne · 04-29-13, 08:37 PM

Are these neuro issues lethal? What are the negative effects of this behavior, other than looking really weird?

TheSuppishOne · 04-29-13, 10:31 PM

Legitimate question. Could this be IBD?

Mark Taylor · 04-29-13, 11:55 PM

One of my boa's hates baths freaks out big time but in his viv and being handled he is one of the calmest.

The tub seems to big to me also this may add to his stress, if he don't like water to much and has nothing to hold on to so to speak.

Starbuck · 04-30-13, 03:32 AM

if he is exhibiting this behavior in the tub AND in his viv, that makes me much more concerned. I would contact the breeder first, show him the vid, see what he has to say, and consider returning the snake for a refund/exchange (lemon law; this may require that you take him to a vet to get a vet statement). I know that might be really hard because you guys have bonded with him and done a pretty good job thus far, but it may be a better choice in the long run (this is your first snake, right?).

If refund/exchange isn't an option for you, i would get him to a vet asap. They will be able to tell you if its just a neuro issue that wont cause any long-term issues vs something more serious like IBD.

otherwise, keep feeding him as normal, maybe lay off on the baths

, and enjoy your pet (respectful to his health issues however

)

TheSuppishOne · 04-30-13, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

If refund/exchange isn't an option for you, i would get him to a vet asap. They will be able to tell you if its just a neuro issue that wont cause any long-term issues vs something more serious like IBD.

A vet can really diagnose this? I thought it wasn't able to be diagnosed until already post-mortem...? Is this going to be a substantial bill?

Terranaut · 04-30-13, 04:22 AM

I would avoid contact with anyone elses snakes for the time being. Yes there is a chance it's IBD but there are many other posibilities so don't jump to any conclusions. Also remember that if it is IBD , this will do a lot of damage to the breeders reputation so again, be sure of whatbit is before saying IBD. I do believe in taking precautions as if it is IBD now just incase, even if it likely is not. Better safe than sorry.

Mark Taylor · 04-30-13, 10:44 AM

Have you spoke to Ken to see what he his willing to do?

As far as I am aware it can be diagnosed by a vet but yeah it would be costly.

Will0W783 · 04-30-13, 11:01 AM

The definitive diagnosis for IBD/BOID is a postmortem brain examination; however, there are blood tests that can give a tentative diagnosis, and if a vet rules out other causes (genetics, toxin exposure, heat stroke) then it might be.

I had a gorgeous salmon hypo jungle male that exhibited stargazing after I had him for 4 months. He'd just come out of quarantine and one day couldn't move right or eat. He was doing exactly what your boa in the vid did, but all the time and severely. My herp vet diagnosed it as a genetic kidney disease through a blood test. The neurological issues were due to calcium buildup in the muscles. We tried everything we could to save him, but after a battle of 3 more months, I had to have him euthanized.

I would definitely contact Ken and also make an appointment ASAP with a qualified herp vet in your area. Be prepared to spend a few hundred dollars to sort out the issue. It cost me about $500 total in repeated visits for my boa. Another neuro issue that turned out to be an actual stroke in a retic cost me about $650 total, because I had extensive necropsy and postmortem disease testing run.

TheSuppishOne · 04-30-13, 01:10 PM

I contacted Ken. Here was our conversation:

"Hey there Ken! So I bought a baby Dumeril's boa from you exactly one month ago, and have gotten really attached to the quirky little guy. I'm a bit frightened, though, because yesterday I noticed that what I considered quirky can, under stress, become more worrisome. He hasn't been able to get the final piece of shed off of his face, so I've been soaking him. Well yesterday I put him in the bathtub and took a video of his behavior.

Flint in the tub - YouTube

Does this raise any concern in your book? I don't quite know what to think of it, but as far as I know, the wobbling and turning upside down is not normal. He sometimes "stargazes" and inverts himself in his viv, too, just not usually to this extent. Thoughts?

Thank you and feel free to call me."

Ken - "This is sometimes a result of getting too hot. You might want to check your tank temps, but if it did fry its brain, although not life threatening, it could continue this action. Does it do this when not in water, just normally?"

Me - "My tank temps are fine. The water was slightly above room temperature (around 85 degrees), and my normal viv temps range from 75-80 on the cool side, and a solid 90 degrees on the hot side.

It's never to this extent when outside of the water, but he does flip his head upside down occasionally."

Ken - "I'm at a loss as to what's going on."

And that's all. I don't really know how to reply to the last one. I have grown attached to this little guy, but don't really want to spend $500 just to see if there may be an issue...