Me venting!! (market price fluctuations)

[Jendee]

So on alot of the big breeder forums I go to they are having these arguements about market price and value going down so much. ie, said morph was bought for 5k then 4 yrs later for $400. They actually have the nerve to get mad at people for pricing there animals this low and to get mad at people who buy animals this low!! Give me a break people!! everything losses value over time unless its a CD at the bank lmao. If you are trying to "get rich" breeding snakes then your a moron!! it wont happen infact you will be lucky to cover costs of feeding and bills of taking care of said snakes!!
Then what really erks me is these people get mad and aleinate people who say they want to make money. How they just do it for the love of boas or said species, yet there are countless everyday threads about prices..come on people who are you kidding who cares!!!

I do it because its fun and I love it, if this means I gave away my boas for free because they werent worth anything Id still do it because I enjoy it. Making a few bucks no matter how the pricing changes is literally just a perk, that you shouldnt rely on!!

Now if I said this on said forums Id be exiled

which is why I love this place sooo much

[dshin963]

lol I know you are on a rant about prices but I have a question :P
You breed boas right? I was thinking of picking one up in a year or two but I want to buy from a breeder from this forum... who knows why maybe I love you guys

[stephanbakir]

Everyone who cares about the money for whatever reason rants those who love it would do it for free.
That being said if i did buy a boa I'd buy one of yours in exchange for a hug

[dshin963]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Everyone who cares about the money for whatever reason rants those who love it would do it for free.
That being said if i did buy a boa I'd buy one of yours in exchange for a hug

I will hug twice as fiercely

[mykee]

"If you are trying to "get rich" breeding snakes then your a moron!! it wont happen infact you will be lucky to cover costs of feeding and bills of taking care of said snakes!!"

Wrong .
Not wrong enough to be exiled though...
You are SO wrong I can't even begin to tell you how wrong.
I LOVE what I do, don't get me wrong, but it's not just about the love.

Without delving too deep, I will use this one morph and two seasons with it as an example:

2002: I bought a male spider for $8000.
2003: I produced seven clutches (44 eggs) from that male bred to a bunch of normal females.
In 2003, spiders were selling for $5500. I produced 27.

2004: Same male gave me eight clutches (53 eggs) bred to another bunch of normal females and a few pastels.
In 2004, spiders were selling for $4000. I produced 31 spiders and spider crosses (bumblebees).

That's two seasons with one male.

Like any business (or hobby turned bsuiness for that matter) the more time, effort, money (and luck) you put into it, the more you'll get out of it.
This year, I will cover all my expenses for the year:
Feeders; food, bedding, water.
Snakes: electricity, water, food, time etc.
With the first 5 eggs I produce (I can only say that because I now exactly what they'll be).
I hoping for 175-225 eggs.
Keep in mind, I'm small time for what I do.
Close to half of the breeders I know out there are doing this on a larger scale than I am.

[infernalis]

Now that's what I like, shrugs to hugs in only 3 posts..

[stephanbakir]

Don't you wish it was all like this

I wright this while staring at your avatar eating a poutine

[infernalis]

I agree with Mykee on that.

I can't boast price tags like those, but here is some simple math.

I purchased 2 hets (Thamnophis radix) that are called "triple het" possessing possible Anery & Albino. The triple het comes from the likelihood of Anery, Albino & Snow.

They were $40 each, I raised them for two years before the first lockup, total cost of feeding them, under $100 in food for both over 2 years time.

So that's $140 invested into two snakes that occupy 24 inches of space on the floor.

The pairing produced 12 healthy babies, 2 Albinos, 2 Anery and one snow plus a handful of hets for future breeding stock. the other dozen stillborns were a total loss..

now each of those morph babies sell for an average of $100 each +

so in one small space, my $140 produced $500+ in snakes.

Not exactly wall street, but that's $360 to buy more snakes, feed, or whatever.

I used the lowest end example I can.

Consider that one Thamnophis female can drop up to 30 babies, some valued at several hundred dollars each, it's not rocket science that it will make money.

[Jay]

bhb makes a fair chunk

[red ink]

Yep... Small time here as well (hobby breeder off loading excess but...)

One pair of Strophurus taenicauda = $350
5 pairs hatched and sexed sell for $350 each = 1750
cost of enclosures for adults + hatchling racks + wiring = 350 (i make my own stuff so its just the electrics)
1750 - 350 (original breeding pair ) - 350 (the enclosures) = 1050 (nice little road trip holiday with the wife sorted)

*this is just what I bred this year (could not be bothered this year and their just geckos)
I also have other species geckos at home that I will breed next year that will pay for next years holiday.

[Jendee]

Well I dont know about other speciess' markets. I guess I was speaking about boas: )I know the ball python market is booming!!! Alot of people in the boa world have sold out and have gone completey into bp's because of it lol They are simply complaining about the fact that once they bought an animal for said amount they are no longer selling for that price. mykee arent spiders now being sold for like 400 far cry from what you orginally paid for back in 02 right?? well this seems to happen faster in the boa world 3 yrs ago motley's were 2-3k and now they are 300 lol
But Im sooo tired of hearing about it, thats all these "big timers" talk about!! I wish they would give it a rest and enjoy their animals, for the reason that got them into it in the first place, because they are beautiful!!

btw I love hugs!! When I met people I hug them it creeps some people out, so now I warn them as Im going in lol "Im hugging you" lol

[sickvenom]

Originally Posted by Jendee

But Im sooo tired of hearing about it, thats all these "big timers" talk about!! I wish they would give it a rest and enjoy their animals, for the reason that got them into it in the first place, because they are beautiful!

As already stated, some of these breeders make a living at this. So I can understand their frustrations. But complaining about it isn't going to change the market. They need to uphold their reputations as breeders and everything will be just fine. I'd gladly pay a little extra for a high quality specimen from a reputable breeder, versus some shady person on craigslist.

Hugs not drugs.

[stephanbakir]

Rofl, i never understood why people disliked hugs.

[Lankyrob]

Nothing worse than two blokes hugging when one has gone for a handshake..............

Must admit tho i am also a hugger - tho people dont seem to know how to hug someone in a wheelchair!

[infernalis]

Just lean down and go for it mate.

On topic, It's even crazier in my tiny niche' market.

2 years ago when the very first Albino flame appeared, they were $700, they are now $200.. Simply because one breeder only had them, 2 years to reach maturity & blam all the people who bought pairs are now selling them.

supply and demand.

No offense to any breeders, but I do plan on getting a RTB, but I want to get a rehome or adopt one from a shelter, There are far too many abandoned animals getting euthanized, and if I can offer one a decent life, that's the way I wish to go.