Looks like I need some help!

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 07:42 AM

Nothing serious folks but I'm between two species for my next addition. on one hand there is a ball python and the other a columbian red tail boa. obviously the two are very different but what are some of your ideas on this topic? any pro's con's of each? i'm leaning more towards the boa as i seem to have been bitten by the boa bug after my BRB lol

as always thanks in advance!

Will0W783 · 05-18-10, 07:44 AM

I would go for the red-tailed boa, but understand that they do get very large. Pure Colombian red-tailed boas can get 10-12 feet long and they are fairly thick-bodied snakes.

That being said, I find them easier and more forgiving than ball pythons. They need less rigid humidity requirements and tend to be more active and curious. My absolute favorite boa morph is the hypomelanistic (salmon) boa, which you can find for around $150-250 on craigslist and at most reptile shows. They just glow.

Will0W783 · 05-18-10, 07:45 AM

That's just a picture of a huge boa I found online; not one of mine, but I wish it was- that's a nice snake!

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 08:06 AM

id agree with you there that is a very nice snake and very large haha. While i'm between these two i'm also looking at getting some sort of garter lol BIG difference in size eh?

I love how amazing the RTB's look and I found some at the right price as well as the right age , i have read they are prone to stargazing as well as Inclusion Body Disease when they are younger, i'm curious what actually happens when a boa or python contracts IBD?

shaunyboy · 05-18-10, 10:17 AM

carpet pythons usually die within 3 weeks of catching ibd.ive heard storys of boa dealers in the states getting a shipment of boas then putting a carpet python in amongst them.if the carpet is still alive 3 weeks later they deem the boas ibd free.ive only read a little on boas with ibd and i'm under the impression they can carry it for years with no physical signs of it.over here its a reportable disease,if your vet tests your snake positive for ibd then all the relevant authoritys must be informed.it can wipe out whole collections and is a very serious disease.i'm sure if you google ibd the you will get some usefull info mate.

just posted what i wrote and found willow has sorted you out with good info.we both must have been writing at the same time.
cheers shaun

shaunyboy · 05-18-10, 10:27 AM

ive only witnessed one case of ibd personally.it was pretty horrible.the snake looked like it had had a stroke.it had no control over one of its bottom jaws.it also kept corkscrewing and stargazing then falling over.near the end it was bitting its own body.the snake had to be put down by the vet.he then took tissue samples that ended up testing posotive for ibd.its the worst thing ive seen with a snake,i felt so helpless.
cheers shaun

Will0W783 · 05-18-10, 10:13 AM

Boas and pythons can both contract IBD. It's a retrovirus, like AIDS. Also like AIDS, there is no cure and it is invariably fatal. However, it affects boas and pythons somewhat differently. In both cases, often the first sign is repeated regurgitations of food. Then it progresses to neurological problems, like the "stargazing" where the snake lifts its head straight up in the air and the head often falls over backwards...the animal won't be able to right itself if you turn it onto its back and movements will be uncoordinated and "twisty." I've seen cases where a snake corkscrewed its whole body up. Often there will be signs of respiratory infection as well. Pythons almost always show signs quickly and die within a few months. Boas can carry the disease without showing symptoms for months or even years, until some discrepancy in husbandry or environment or other illness weakens the immune system and sets of the symptoms of IBD. Necropsy will show eosinophilic inclusion bodies in the liver, kidneys, brain, heart, lungs and other organs, depending on how long the snake had the disease before it died. The brain inclusion bodies are the most characteristic sign, so the only definitive test for IBD is to sacrifice the snake and send the brain in for testing. If you have a snake showing symptoms indicative of IBD, it will most likely not survive for long and you'll definitely want to have a necropsy done to determine if it was IBD.
You shouldn't consider IBD as a reason not to buy a boa; if you buy from a respectable breeder, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. IBD has gotten fairly rare today due to good housing and quarantining practices, but it does pop up once in a while, especially when dealing with imported boids. However, when buying ANY new snake it is always recommended to quarantine it for up to 3 months. Some people even say 6. If you go onto Youtube and search for "inclusion body disease" you will find videos of snakes showing symptoms of IBD.

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 10:36 AM

Alrighty thanks guys, it just worried me a little bit. As you said willow, it most likely wont deter me from picking up a boa lol they are a steal at the current price, as far as a rubbermaid for these goes what would be my dimensions, once it gets bigger i will be building it something suitable but for now its about 8 months old and what is suitable for this animal?

shaunyboy · 05-18-10, 10:46 AM

thankfully ibd is not that common over here.ive never kept boa's mate so i dont feel qualified to answer your housing needs.but have fun with your new boa when you get it.
cheers shaun

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 11:02 AM

thanks! maybe i'll just get both a BP and an RTB lol

decisions decisions

shaunyboy · 05-18-10, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emseeKAY

thanks! maybe i'll just get both a BP and an RTB lol

decisions decisions

that would be the best decision i think or what about getting a pair of boas then you could breed them one day.i'm sure they are live baring so you wouldnt have the hassle of egg incubation.just a thought

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 11:34 AM

hehehe, my girlfriend's mother would not like you or all 20ish babies hehehe

thats a great idea haha

Nafun · 05-18-10, 12:45 PM

I love my bp, but they are a lot more work than you would think. But if you have a brb, you can maintain the temps and humidity that a bp needs. They *are* finicky eaters, and it can be heart wrenching watching them refuse food when you know they're hungry. I would not recommend a BP unless you have a reliable source of rats of *all* sizes. They're imprint feeders and I can speak from experience here... getting them off of mice is a bitch.

As for red tailed boas.... they get huge. Do you have a reliable source of extra large rats or rabbits? Do you have someone to help you handle them? The rule of thumb is something like one person for every 4 feet of snake (I've also heard 5 feet, and 6 feet). An adult red tailed boa can kill you accidentally, and if it innocently anchors its tail around your neck while you're holding it, you WILL die if there's no one there to pull it off. Also, a 12' snake will be looking at something like an 8' long enclosure. A local pet store has a 12' RTB crammed into a 36" screen cage. It's not a pretty sight.

emseeKAY · 05-18-10, 01:14 PM

I know it frustrates the hell out of me when a snake refuses to eat lol, What i'm looking at is bp's which are started on rats and not mice, as for RTB's i would say the rule of thumb is more or less dependent on what species you're looking at lol my BRB is about 5-6ft and he's a breeze to handle. I would start looking at a spotter around 8ft but thats just my opinion, obviously dependent on the species again. Since my collection is expanding I've started ordering bulk rats with some mice thrown in for my king, but I do have a reliable source of feeders, Mice, Rats, Quail, Chickens, Rabbits, you name it lol. At the moment I would be setting the RTB up in a bin as he's still quite young, once he grows he will get his said enclosure, it really is heart breaking when you see animals like that, I once saw a full sized Cal King in a cricket keeper at a store. I honestly couldnt tell if it was alive or not.

Either way I'm looking forward to what i get and have obviously gotten addicted haha

I BLAME ALL OF YOU!

J/K

**Aaron_S** · 05-20-10, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emseeKAY

I know it frustrates the hell out of me when a snake refuses to eat lol, What i'm looking at is bp's which are started on rats and not mice, as for RTB's i would say the rule of thumb is more or less dependent on what species you're looking at lol my BRB is about 5-6ft and he's a breeze to handle. I would start looking at a spotter around 8ft but thats just my opinion, obviously dependent on the species again. Since my collection is expanding I've started ordering bulk rats with some mice thrown in for my king, but I do have a reliable source of feeders, Mice, Rats, Quail, Chickens, Rabbits, you name it lol. At the moment I would be setting the RTB up in a bin as he's still quite young, once he grows he will get his said enclosure, it really is heart breaking when you see animals like that, I once saw a full sized Cal King in a cricket keeper at a store. I honestly couldnt tell if it was alive or not.

Either way I'm looking forward to what i get and have obviously gotten addicted haha

I BLAME ALL OF YOU!

J/K

Just get what you like the most. No one else but you is caring for the animal so you have to enjoy that.

Also, on the handling side of things, don't forget that a BRB is a lot more slender than any RTB so at 6ft it's not very difficult but a 6ft female RTB can be a bit of a handful. Always good to have someone around when messing around.