first shedding

raviolli · 06-15-09, 07:52 PM

my BP had her first shed today...almost made it one complete piece too but not quite. i thought it was strange to find her skin crumpled up in a ball but i found this on another thread and i guess its normal for a BP. anyways, it was in two pieces...about 5 inches from her face it was torn in half (shes about 2ft long) and theres still a couple pieces stuck to her (but only about 2-3mm big for these pieces of skin). im not too worried about this, but i also noticed a few very small blood stains on the skin. a very small amount around the cloaca and 2 or 3 even smaller stains on the under side a lil further up stream. im guessing this is where some of the skin was stuck and she may have torn it a little. i just got her on may 9th of this year from a petco, and they were underfeeding her. they told me a fuzzy a week, so thats what i gave her, but that wasnt enough and i noticed weight loss. she seemed to have poor muscle tone and her backbone was raised. i figured it was lack of protein but wasnt sure so i went to another pet store for a second opinion and they guy there said i shouldve been feeding mice. he suggested hoppers, so ive been giving her 1 hopper twice a week to get that weight back and so far its working. shes definately getting her muscle tone back, but her spine is still raised (which is also concerning me) could the drastic change in size/weight be the cause of her incomplete shedding? or even some of the spots where the skin is sticking? ive got a thermostat and a new thermometer shipping in the mail right now to get things perfect, but as far as temps go, everythings very close to where it should be. the surface temp in the hidebox at the hot end is a lil high, which is probably why she doesnt use that one anymore, but shes got another one which is about right. humidity is good too, the lowest ive seen is about 45% and the highest maybe 65% but it seems to stay 50%-55% almost all the time.

also, i was wondering if theres an easy way to tell if the eyecaps came off with the shed. her face portion of the shed was too crumpled to tell, i tried to see, but that section just tore. her eyes are clear, but i cant tell if the caps are gone since they clear before the shed anyways

Kmef07 · 06-16-09, 03:25 PM

the humidity needs to be between 60 and 70 and then you need to raise it as close to 100 percent during shed as you can. also it isn't stuck skin that is creating blood it would be a small wound i would guess. examine the areas and look really good around them. also try and get some pics of the backbone so we can help you out.

raviolli · 06-17-09, 05:30 PM

everywhere ive read it said to keep the humidity at about 50% and about 60% during sheds. so do you mist to increase it? because i dont think i could go with a bigger water dish. the one i have is already a 6 quart rubbermaid bin, its definately big enough. ive got some recent pics....just took them today. right after she ate. like i said, im feeding her one hopper twice a week now to gain that weight back and it seems to be working. im wondering if i could go with two hoppers twice a week to speed up the process though because she seems to take anything i give her. for example, i was feeding on wednesdays and saturdays, but last saturday, i went to the store after work and they were closed. went back sunday and they were closed again, so i went monday and got one. obviously she took it without a problem, but that was only two days ago and todays wednesday and she took it today without a problem too. do you think i should try two hoppers on saturday?

siz · 06-17-09, 05:47 PM

Yes, mist to increase your humidity to almost 100%. Careful to keep it humid and not moist, a wet tank promotes bacteria growth and possible RIs.
You shouldn't handle your snake right after feeding - I wait minimally 24 hours before handling but usually 48 hours.
I think feeding 4 hoppers a week is a bit much...I would consider that 'power feeding'.

raviolli · 06-18-09, 01:45 PM

what i was doing is misting the small area where she sleeps under the cooler hidebox twice a week. and dont worry, i dont handle her after feeding...i wait usually 48 hours as well. i only uncovered her to take a pic, then left her alone. and shes only getting two hoppers per week, i was just wondering if i should step it up a notch (at least offer another...maybe 1 on wednesdays and 2 on saturdays?), since she needs to gain weight and she always takes whatevers in there pretty quickly.

raviolli · 06-18-09, 01:50 PM

...and i also forgot to mention, my hygrometer is built right into my digital thermometer which is on the hot side of the tank. i only have one of these but am going to get another for the other end. its a fairly long tank....bout 4 feet and the 6 quart water dish is all the way on the other end so the humidity is a bit different over there. she almost always sleeps under the hide thats pretty much dead center of the tank and i mist there twice a week. so when i say my humidity levels are almost always at 50%, that means on the hot side away from the water.

thanks for the replies

Kmef07 · 06-21-09, 01:19 PM

humidity will usually be higher on the hot side of the tank and i would put a small water dish on the hot side so it will create better humidity. also keep it to two hoppers a week i would say. I would feed every saturday and give the two hoppers at the same time wait a week and repeat. feeding snakes as much as they will take isn't good. my snake would probably eat every day if i let it and it would defiantly not be good for it. snakes by nature are opportunistic feeders and will eat until they die because instinct tells them they better eat everything because they will never know when the next meal is coming.

Chu'Wuti · 06-21-09, 02:23 PM

Quote:

everywhere ive read it said to keep the humidity at about 50% and about 60% during sheds.

I don't know where "everywhere" is, but in The Complete Ball Python, McCurdy concurs with the other sources I have seen: 60% (minimum) is appropriate for the norm with a humidity box to allow the python to move to a higher humidity location when it feels the need..

He states,

Quote:

Retained (or "stuck") sheds are the first clue that a python's cage is too dry. Eventually, being kept in too dry a state will stress a ball python, potentially to the point of illness.

(bold added for emphasis, p. 24)

What size tank are you using? You say it's about 4' long, but you add that you have a 6-quart water tub, which is really large--the size of a large slow-cooker, if that means anything to you. You would probably be better off with two smaller water bowls.

Make a humidity box by getting some long-fiber sphagnum peat moss, soaking it in water and squeezing out most of the water so it's just damp, and putting it in a second hide in the warm end of your BP's enclosure.

Some people will suggest a smaller enclosure, though as your BP is eating well, IMHO is not really necessary if you have multiple hides.

It appears that you're using aspen shavings for substrate. It's a little harder to tell when it dries out, and it's a little more prone to mold than cypress, but it's a pretty decent substrate. When you mist, it should turn more yellowish--stir it up so that all of it soaks up some moisture, not just the top layer, but don't saturate it to the point that it pools on the bottom of the enclosure. It will gradually release the moisture. When it turns pale again, you will need to mist again.

As Jess explained, the humidity needs to go up during a shed cycle--minimum 85% and many experienced keepers increase to 100% for that period to ensure a problem-free shed.

Re feeding, many pet stores give out highly inaccurate information about feeding BPs. It's easiest to get a good scales and weigh your snake, then aim for feeding about 10% its body weight once a week. Other than weighing, a good rule of thumb is feed a prey item about the girth of your snake at its widest part; you may be able to get your baby onto larger prey than you're currently feeding it, which leads to my next suggestion: you may wish to switch to rats soon so that the BP doesn't get stuck on mice--rats are less expensive in the long run, and some people believe they are more nutritious.

Good luck!

raviolli · 06-22-09, 01:39 PM

thanks for all the help
...its a 55 gallon tank. its 4'X1' and about 20" tall and the 6 quart (5.7L) water tub (which is actually rubbermaid container with a lid that i got from the dollar store) i guess is a bit large compared to the size of my BP, but ill probably keep it and find a smaller one for the other end.
i definately agree when you say pet stores give highly inaccurate info about feeding...i got my BP at a petco. she was probably about as round as a quarter and they said she just moved up to frozen fuzzys. (i hardly go to petco anymore)...theres only one other pet store in my area (that i know of) and the guy there was telling me today that pythons wont get sick from overfeeding. he said boas will, but pythons will just eat when theyre hungry and theyll be fine. when theyre not hungry, they just wont take it. i fed her 2 hoppers today and she took them right away (and i must say, either the hoppers are getting smaller or its definately working because compared to the hoppers, her girth is much larger now). the guy also said i could give her 2 hoppers at a time for a few feedings, then try a small mouse. but then again, he hasnt seen her so ill get some pics up here soon that clearly show her size. (not yet, she just ate...maybe wednesday)

BTW, yes, i am using aspen...but soon enough i'd like to replace all of the bedding and give the tank a nice thorough cleaning. at that point, which substrate would be best? for a long time i heard aspen was best, but they guy at the petstore was saying he likes coconut shavings because they hold moisture better.

i probably wanted to say more but dont remember what...but im going to run to walmart and get some of that peat moss. thanks everyone for the info...i appreciate it

Will0W783 · 06-23-09, 08:01 AM

I would definitely say a 55-gallon tank is too big for a ball python, even a full-grown one. I had my 4-foot long adult bp in a 55, but I could not keep the humidity up no matter what I did, and he had a few bad sheds and ended up with retained eyecaps that cost me 4 visits to the vet, several hundred dollars and months of applying ointment twice a day. He also was a very picky eater while in the large tank. He is now in a 30-gallon breeder tank (Critter Cage makes them; they're great) and he is much much happier. He eats better, has much better sheds, and is less agitated. Ball pythons do not need tons of space; in fact, they do much better with just enough space for them to turn around and stretch out, but no more. Bigger is not better with ball pythons. I would worry about the humidity in the 55-gallon and also the snake's sense of security. If I were you, I would get a smaller tank for him.

raviolli · 06-26-09, 10:29 PM

shes definately not a picky eater in the 55...and as far as sheds, it was a bit dry so we'll see how she does with the next one. im getting the humidity up now. with it at 50%, though, it was almost a complete shed...just a couple tiny spots that stuck. and the shed was in two pieces. its hard to tell for sure, but im almost positive that her eyecaps came off. i'd hate to part with this tank, so im going to try everything i can to make it work. when i mist, it easily gets up to about 80%, but only lasts maybe a half an hour or so. ill have to get an automatic mister to go on a timer.

Chu'Wuti · 06-27-09, 05:55 PM

In contrast to Kimberly's experience, I have a BP in a 55-gallon tank & have had him in it since he was was about 18" long, which was a year ago. I have a natural vivarium and have no trouble maintaining the humidity at all, and our BP always has complete sheds. He also eats very well.

I think if you have adequate heat & hides and can maintain the proper humidity, size may not be such a big issue; without enough hides, size may matter much more. We have multiple hides and pothos (Epipremnum aureum) growing in the viv (as well as other plants). Our BP chooses the hide he wants to be in or hides under the pothos at night.

raviolli · 06-28-09, 06:30 AM

thats good to hear because i love my tank...only paid $30 for it and so many extras. i have two hides, and just added a second water bowl. im still planning on making the humidity box you were talking about earlier but havent gotten any peat moss yet. temps are good, i got my thermostat keeping the surface temp in the hide on the hot end at 90F. still working on humidity tho.

if its not too much trouble could you post some pics of yours? it sounds interesting. what kind of substrate do you use?