Desegregated Tank

Pinky · 11-17-05, 11:09 PM

Hey guys.
I want to build a larg terarium to house live plants, fish and some type of herp. With a theme related to the area the animals are from. I want to use South American Ciclids as the fish housed in this tank.
Any sugjestions on a herp to go along with it. Somthing that wont eat or be eaten by the other inmates in the tank. :bugged:
It would possably be easyer to Use african fauna.....

Ciddian · 11-18-05, 12:27 AM

Hmmm... I was thinking maybe anoles for your herps. (i dont know if that fits in..)

But for cichlids you could pick a lake and figure out which type you like then i would sugest maybe anubias (sp) Because they are tough enough to be in with cichlids. The're a whole bunch of different kinds to choose from too.

I would be interested to see what you do! ^^

-okapi- · 11-18-05, 11:28 AM

There are a few sources that will be of some use to you. the 2006 Reptiles USA, the september 2005 Reptiles turtle issue, popular amphibians by Philippe de Vosjoli, and an aquarium ecosystem book, such as the complete aquarium (I *think* thats the title).
The Reptiles USA issue has a vivarium article called "home sweet habitat" on pages 20-32, that includes wetlands.
The Reptiles turtle issue has a really great "living vivarium" article about an aquatic turtle vivarium that includes cichlids, turtles, and plants on pages 76-79.
Popular Amphibians is a book that has lots of tips for anyone who wants to build a wetland/aquatic terrarium.
The Complete Aquarium is a book with about 20ish naturalistic aquarium ideas from around the world. It has step by step instructions on how to create just about any aquatic environment, but it is a little expensive at the book store where i saw it...

how big is your tank gonna be? If its 55gallons or bigger, then bullfrogs, leopard frogs, aquatic snakes, or aquatic turtles would be good. If its smaller than 55gallon, i would suggest treefrogs, firebellied toads, axolotls, or newts. Once you choose the animal(s), then you can choose the layout, plants, and fish to include. Also its important to really research EVERY THING you plan on putting in the tank. For example, you dont want to put a bullfrog in with a treefrog, because your treefrog will be eaten.

If you use cichlids, then there wont be many plants you can use, because they are really good at ripping them up. If you do use cichlids, and want to use plants, look in a plant book, or aquarium plant website, for plants that specificly say that fish wont bother them. Also, if your going to use a herptile (reptile or amphibian) that could damage plants, just by swimming around, diving in the water, or digging, such as turtles, large frogs, or snakes, dont get delicate or slow growing plants, because they will soon drop all their leaves and die. Good plants for turtles, large frogs, or snakes would be any fast growing, grass-like plant which will simply bend out of the herps way and not be damaged.

It may be better for you to use something that breeds fast, or is good enought at escaping that your herp wont be able to eat them all. For example, guppies. However, dont mix guppies with cichlids, because cichlids are highly agressive.

Once you decide what herptile youll use, post and ill be able to give better advice.

Pinky · 11-19-05, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -okapi-

There are a few sources that will be of some use to you. the 2006 Reptiles USA, the september 2005 Reptiles turtle issue, popular amphibians by Philippe de Vosjoli, and an aquarium ecosystem book, such as the complete aquarium (I *think* thats the title).
The Reptiles USA issue has a vivarium article called "home sweet habitat" on pages 20-32, that includes wetlands.
The Reptiles turtle issue has a really great "living vivarium" article about an aquatic turtle vivarium that includes cichlids, turtles, and plants on pages 76-79.
Popular Amphibians is a book that has lots of tips for anyone who wants to build a wetland/aquatic terrarium.
The Complete Aquarium is a book with about 20ish naturalistic aquarium ideas from around the world. It has step by step instructions on how to create just about any aquatic environment, but it is a little expensive at the book store where i saw it...

how big is your tank gonna be? If its 55gallons or bigger, then bullfrogs, leopard frogs, aquatic snakes, or aquatic turtles would be good. If its smaller than 55gallon, i would suggest treefrogs, firebellied toads, axolotls, or newts.

The entire enclosures only limitations are cash flow. I have no problem building an area as big as say 6’w x 3’d x 6’h this will be a custom endeavor. Using wood and fiberglass epoxy to build the tanks walls. (Save the viewing wall and doors that will be glass)

Once you choose the animal(s), then you can choose the layout, plants, and fish to include. Also its important to really research EVERY THING you plan on putting in the tank. For example, you dont want to put a bullfrog in with a treefrog, because your treefrog will be eaten.

I’m leaning toward African Cichlids they don’t seem to require a deep water area for living comfortably… the last tank I built like this was a 55 gallon, with about 8 inches of water for the fish (Mixed Africans inside) but never got a reptile in the tank. Just live plants I think this sort of set up will be the most pleasing.

If you use cichlids, then there wont be many plants you can use, because they are really good at ripping them up. If you do use cichlids, and want to use plants, look in a plant book, or aquarium plant website, for plants that specificly say that fish wont bother them. Also, if your going to use a herptile (reptile or amphibian) that could damage plants, just by swimming around, diving in the water, or digging, such as turtles, large frogs, or snakes, dont get delicate or slow growing plants, because they will soon drop all their leaves and die. Good plants for turtles, large frogs, or snakes would be any fast growing, grass-like plant which will simply bend out of the herps way and not be damaged.

Plants I understand will be a challenge. With both the fish and the herps. I will be lucky to keep the plant life in with the theme. I will probably just select plants that look burly and require low light. Im sure this area will be a long and painful learning experience.

It may be better for you to use something that breeds fast, or is good enought at escaping that your herp wont be able to eat them all. For example, guppies. However, dont mix guppies with cichlids, because cichlids are highly agressive.

Once you decide what herptile youll use, post and ill be able to give better advice.

Herps
I will have lot of above water area for herps and plants.
So I guess I want a African herp. (To go with the Cic’s) That would be arboreal in nature. Something that I could keep a pair or more, something whose requirements could be a bit versatile as far as heating and environmental needs.
And if it were up to my son… it would have to be a snake. But it could be anything. Geckos, Frogs, or Lizards. Ideally more than one species would be the most interesting to look at. Although probably not practical. Suggestions along this line is where I need most help.

My Replys are in GREEN

Thank your for your thoughtfull replys guys. And the resourse material. :thumbsup:

Ciddian · 11-19-05, 01:53 PM

A tree snake would be wild... I really love ribbon snakes but never got to keep one. They are excellent at hunting fish though.. lol. So thats where you might want a cheaper fish. (but cichlids are easy breeders once you get a good pair!)
The cichlids really shouldnt bother with that anubias so at least you have one plant you can go crazy with...and all along the bottom of the wall (underwater) you could place lava rock, vine..etc etc.. Lots of little niches the fish can fight over. If you hit a cichlid forum i am sure they can supply more interesting plants ^^....i could talk fish with some of these people forever lol.

I would love to see photos once this does get sorted out and done.. ^^

Pinky · 11-20-05, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciddian

A tree snake would be wild... I really love ribbon snakes but never got to keep one. They are excellent at hunting fish though.. lol. So thats where you might want a cheaper fish. (but cichlids are easy breeders once you get a good pair!)
The cichlids really shouldnt bother with that anubias so at least you have one plant you can go crazy with...and all along the bottom of the wall (underwater) you could place lava rock, vine..etc etc.. Lots of little niches the fish can fight over. If you hit a cichlid forum i am sure they can supply more interesting plants ^^....i could talk fish with some of these people forever lol.

I would love to see photos once this does get sorted out and done.. ^^

HEHE ya i love fish too.. specialy Cics. Years ago I had quite a colection of fish and reps. I was more into fish. I got into reps cuz it was during a boom time in the hobby and folks were discovering that it wasnt so eazy to take care of them. They woudl loose interest or run the animals down and because i was sorta handy with animals they would come to me with thier animals and give them to me or ask me to bring them back to good health. At one time I had 1400 gallons of cics South Amaricans mostly and at any givin time up to 10 iggys (the most popular at the time) 6 ball pythons (tick infested), a Solomon Island boa (major pain in the ***! this was one angry not wanting to eat critter), 2 Columbian Boas (one was mine and the other was given to me), and a nice colony of feeder rats.
I gave it all up when my boy was born. And now he is showing interest in keeping a snake. So here we go again. :medopen:

Ribbon snake eh? Ill have to reserch the critter... Anyone have any idea of the general temperment. Idealy it would be cool to have one that the boy could handle.

I also have been tinkering with the idea of keeping native species.. Possably a black rat snake and stick some bluegills in the water area.

Ciddian · 11-20-05, 03:31 PM

Wow thats some history you have! LoL
I think we all kinda had non animal friends 'loan' us thier pets after the fun wore out lol.
I dont have any children yet... but i can't think of handling both all my pets and a child...O_o
my pets are my kids for heavens sakes lol. But i would gladly give up some of my collection if i ever had a son or daughter...^^ And just pray they like animals. lol

I think that would make you a 'cool' parent.. rofl. All the kids would come by to see your zoo.

ribbon snakes are very neat... they are a tree snake i think, that grows very long and skinny. So they can be handled but they are fast and they can musk too though :/ But! a very very neat snake. We used to have a pair at a pet store i worked at and just fell in love. Awesome fish hunters.

Can you keep native species where you are? I've always wanted to have sunfish..or silversides

Pinky · 11-20-05, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciddian

Wow thats some history you have! LoL
I think we all kinda had non animal friends 'loan' us thier pets after the fun wore out lol.
I dont have any children yet... but i can't think of handling both all my pets and a child...O_o
my pets are my kids for heavens sakes lol. But i would gladly give up some of my collection if i ever had a son or daughter...^^ And just pray they like animals. lol

I think that would make you a 'cool' parent.. rofl. All the kids would come by to see your zoo.

ribbon snakes are very neat... they are a tree snake i think, that grows very long and skinny. So they can be handled but they are fast and they can musk too though :/ But! a very very neat snake. We used to have a pair at a pet store i worked at and just fell in love. Awesome fish hunters.

Can you keep native species where you are? I've always wanted to have sunfish..or silversides

I think the rule is that i have to have a valid fishing licence.... :zi: silly eh?

mathaldo · 11-26-05, 07:04 PM

Right now in my cichlid tank I have Val.... and a couple other plants... the fish dont seem to bother the plants that much... I'll find a picture of my tank and the names of the plants later. I'd be afraid some snakes would attempt to eat the fish... Are you planning on keeping cheap/expensive fish in there?

Pinky · 11-28-05, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathaldo

Right now in my cichlid tank I have Val.... and a couple other plants... the fish dont seem to bother the plants that much... I'll find a picture of my tank and the names of the plants later. I'd be afraid some snakes would attempt to eat the fish... Are you planning on keeping cheap/expensive fish in there?

Prolly just mixed Africans... so not too pricey. And I have not made any choice on the type of herp to keep in it. Just fishing for ideas for the folks here at ssnakess

Thanks

-okapi- · 11-27-05, 12:16 PM

Ok, while looking into ciclids to find out info on herps and plants that are safe to use, I found this cool DIY project. It may not be what I was looking for, but I think its cool enough to share: http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiygrotto/bndiygrotto.htm
While reading the article I didnt think it would turn out very good, but the finished pic rivals some naturalistic vivaria ive seen. Check it out.

Pinky · 11-28-05, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -okapi-

Ok, while looking into ciclids to find out info on herps and plants that are safe to use, I found this cool DIY project. It may not be what I was looking for, but I think its cool enough to share: http://www.duboisi.com/diy/BNdiygrotto/bndiygrotto.htm
While reading the article I didnt think it would turn out very good, but the finished pic rivals some naturalistic vivaria ive seen. Check it out.

Hey thats realy cool! I will keep that in mind for sure! Tanks for the link! :thumbsup:

Ciddian · 11-28-05, 02:03 AM

That is a very neat way to maximize space for more tunnels!
thats pretty awesome, first time i have seen that

-okapi- · 11-28-05, 04:36 PM

np, that would be a cool tank, but i think the 3 different types of rock looked kinda unrealistic. Like, they should of bought big pieces of lava rock for the big rocks, and used crushed lava rock as the substrate. That bright white didnt look right with lavarock... But it was still a cool idea.

-okapi- · 11-28-05, 10:46 PM

ok, this is all i could find so far in the plant department: http://cichlidforums.com/showthread/t-12567.html
Some guy in a cic forum says you can use java ferns and anubias sp. I guess if you attach all plants to wood and rocks they will be less likely to be uprooted by the fish. Oh, and i thought of a few good herps: Red eared slider/painted turtles, day geckos, chameleons, tree frogs, or mantellas. For the mantellas, you would need to do more work, keeping them and the fish seperated, culturing fruit flies for feeding, etc. however it would make a nice display, brightly colored frogs and brightly colored fish both from africa (madagascar is an island which belongs to africa right?) Or a vivarium with ciclids and a chameleon would be cool, but i personally find chameleons to be a little pricey for such a short lifespan...