Rat Moms & Baby Sharing

hhw · 12-05-04, 09:08 PM

In one of my cages, I have 2 female rats together. One had a litter a few weeks ago, and the babies have been opening their eyes the last day or so. The other just had babies today. While she was giving birth, the older babies were swarming her while their mother was off on the opposite end of the cage, sitting around nonchalantly. Since it seemed like the older babies were stressing the new mother out, I separated them out along with their mother.

Should I have been worried and separated them, or should I just have left them together? It just seemed to me that the new mother had adopted all the old babies as well as having all the new ones, which would seem like way too much of a load on her. Or, is that natural, and the older mother would just help out with both litters kept together in one big bunch?

Mark · 12-05-04, 09:25 PM

Leave them together.

All my breeders share their babies and some even try to steal all the babies. As long as the babies are being cared for it doesn't matter who nurses them. I bet the females will ended up sharing the nursing or the other female would have stolen some pinks back.

Mark

mykee · 12-05-04, 10:46 PM

What Mark said.

Phrasty · 12-06-04, 03:04 PM

you can leave the females in with the babies together, just to be safe make sure the breeder male is out, ive had probs with him killing some of the hoppers. just some input for ya.

damzookeeper · 12-06-04, 03:09 PM

dido what mark said. I have at least a pair of females per cage. I find it is less stressfull on the females because they share the duties of the babies. One will sleep while the other feeds and then they will switch. Sometimes they both have some and the bin I leave older babies in I've never had trouble with the male. He actually seems to help as well. I often find him snuggled with the babies or helping the moms move them in and out of their hides.
Rats are so much better parents than mice! IMO anyway.

Mark · 12-06-04, 03:15 PM

Also I'd also leave the male in. It is fairly rare to have the male rats killing babies and you usually end up with more problems if you start adding and removing males and females when it is not needed.

mykee · 12-06-04, 03:45 PM

What Mark said AGAIN. I leave my colonies in tact always, especially when babies arrive. Leaving the father in with the females helps establish a bond in the colony that can only work in your favour.
As for males that eat babies; they get whacked and frozen at first chance. It's not normal for male rats to eat their young, and you should seriously consider permanent removal of any male that manifests that behavior Phrasty.

Cookie · 12-06-04, 03:45 PM

i agree... but i would take the male out. I have a blind rat (male) that i figured was safe enough to leave in with the females seeing he was blind, To no avail 7 pinks out of the 10 were gone in 1 day not totaly ate but heads were eaten. I find when i breed for myself i keep all my females and baby's together and all my males get seperated most of the time people take the reintroduction as fighting when really they are just mating again... If you don't want inbreeding then take your males out as soon as they eat on there own as at 3 weeks they are able to breed. I have inbred mice and have not seen signs of deforalities one colony i have had now 6 generations and only got a blind rat so far... I was hoping the deformalities were extra body parts lol not sure if this effects a reptile but would love to know if it does as my brother breeds mice he don't disclose rodent questions i may have regarding this issue.... But all mice and rats take care of each others babys

mykee · 12-06-04, 03:53 PM

Cookie, you'll only get mating if you leave your female babies in with their father for at LEAST the six weeks or so that it takes for them to reach sexual maturity (I'm thinking closer to nine though I've NEVER had a 9 week old rat have babies, but plenty of 3 monthers). Why would you leave the babies in that long anyways? For th most part, once the babies are weaned, (2-3 weeks) they're out in their own bin.
As for "inbreeding" it's not as big a problem as you would think. I have many many rats that are related, and have seen no ill-effects of inbreeding in over 10 generations. It's always a good idea to retire a breeder male every year or so and let him live out his days not having to worry about "performing" for you. As for your blind, cannibal father rat that you mentioned, time to meet the freezer. That type of behavior in an established colony is just not acceptable.

Mark · 12-06-04, 09:25 PM

Cookie:

If I ever had a colony that was killing the babies it would be gassed off. I use my males for a year or so. The females get gassed when they drop in production and I hold onto the male still and gass the females. I usually run a male through 2 breeding bins before he gets culled. Basicly it comes down to if I bin doesn't produce, bites to and extream amount,biting babies and killing babies it gets culled and a new bin is started with siblings of my better breeders. It has worked quite well so far. The only breeders I'm having issues with are my pure SD labs but they produce enough babies for me to bear with it. My best luck rat wise has been crossing a couple of high producing normal females with huge male labs. I also find inbreeder has little effect as long as you don't breed deformed rats or use offspring from females that produce a lot of deformities.

Edit: Also why would you even consider suing a blind male rat as a breeder?

Mark

timminsreptiles · 12-06-04, 09:29 PM

rats and mice are pretty good for taking other babies.......sometimes i order live pinkies for my store when im running low on the ones i breed and well they dont come with the mother so i just put them with a mother that already has some and they always take em no problem.

Jayson · 12-06-04, 09:30 PM

I 100% agree with everything that mykee just said. Personally i dont ever remember having a male eating his own offspring. More often then not it is the females eating the babies. females will eat their own if they are not healthy, or if the female herself is not healthy enough to care for her litter. It is natures way for the mother to look out for herself first and babies second.

Cookie · 12-06-04, 09:45 PM

sorry i was thinking mice... i have had many many bins with 3 females and one male produce 3 litters wack the male all in 6 weeks then those 3 females average 6-8 babies each then produce another batch aprox 60-80 baby's in a 3 month period. I don't breed rats personaly but figured they were the same as mice as i have even had a mouse have a baby one week then the rest of the litter a week later. I have also had a rat born blind and by himself and 1 week later the mother had 8 more.. I am sure there are stranger story's out there then that. Rats and mice also eat there babies if there is a threat of no water or food and may lessen the litter as well as if they feel a threat. usualy i keep my mice females and lose the males i keep my females up to a year and have also kept a few for believe it or not sentimental reasons. All though they can live 2-4 years no problem I have bins numbered and i also find certain bins my litters are 6-8 mice and some are 10-12 and always consistant with the average.

Cookie · 12-06-04, 09:49 PM

Have caught many males eat a baby as far as mice go i feel no need to keep the males on a small scale of breeding

Cookie · 12-06-04, 09:56 PM

I don't use blind mice or rats to breed lol... I said i have had blind ones born kind of rare actualy but it has happened also that rat that was blind was born and a week later his brothers and sisters were. I actualy kept him and i keep kim with the females and if he has fathered i have not had any blind rats since he actualy will sleep with the mothers and babies and look after them. He's now 1 yr old and he's a sentimental value because he was my first born rat and born alone.