Melanistic Leopard Gecko???

PDDM · 07-16-04, 04:12 PM

Ok this May Be A Stupid Question,But I never Knew Black Leos Existed,No one on any boards ive ever been on has ever mentioned one or owning one and i havent heard of anyone owning one,the only reason i know about them is because of the leopard gecko manuel,it says we should have black velvety leos in 2000,ive never heard of these guys,so i look on google i saw a pic of a Hyper-melanistic gecko,is there any reason why no one has this leo???Is it really hard to produce or something???Any other general info about the melanistic leo would be great.

lifeline · 07-16-04, 04:19 PM

Melanistic Leopard Gecko??? It is just a normal leopardgecko with alot of black spotting on it. or are you talking about a midnight blizzard?

thanks mike and cheryl
leopardgecko.ca

672 · 07-16-04, 04:21 PM

Well the problem is, nobody has really found a genetic melanistic, anerythristic or axanthic leopard gecko. This would open the door to a whole new world of cool morphs, so that's why alot of people want it (morphs like a true snow). The "melanistic" leopard geckos these days were produced through selective breeding, so say you find a pretty dark gecko, you'd breed it to another simalarly dark gecko, to produce dark geckos... But it isn't genetic, get my drift?

PDDM · 07-16-04, 04:38 PM

Uh...kinda i suppose im still having trouble getting it ???But you sayinging if lets say i get 2 dark geckos breed them then the babies will be a lil darker and then ill breed the babbies together and theyll just keep getting darker down the line???This is confusing to me,ive never seen and dark,geckos cept some patties but isnt that usualy due to stress?

lifeline · 07-16-04, 04:55 PM

I know Dragndrop has some maybe she can shed some light on it for you.

thanks mike and cheryl
leopardgecko.ca

damzookeeper · 07-16-04, 04:57 PM

This is a girl I had last year hatch out. She has since been sold. I'm not crazy over the darker leos but she was a sweet girl.
Dark leos can be produced at really low temps in incubation. I'm not great with genetics but I don't know if you can get a mel through anything other than selective breeding like tangs. I laugh when I see people selling geckos that are het for tangerine. It isn't a genetic trait it's a selective breeding process that produces such nice tangs. Anyway, this was my dark girl, I sold her to a nice lady at the pcpc show last year.

Her baby picture, she looked pretty normal. She wasn't a melanistic but still a dark leo.

And her sub-adult picture. She had an olive green color to her. A very nice dark girl but I had no breeding intentions with her. So I"m sure she made someone very happy. I still love the pattern on her head.

PDDM · 07-16-04, 05:03 PM

So you had Low tempetures to hatch her that colour???Id love a leo that Looks like her,How much Did You sell Her For???So Basicaly All id Have to Do Is Get A Leo That was incubated at Low Temps???

Tim and Julie B · 07-16-04, 05:13 PM

She looks like a throw-back to what leos look like in the wild. The spotting on her head is typical of wc and hence the term "leopard" gecko

I think just about everyone has forgotten what the leos back in the day looked like. Through selective breeding it has all but been phased out so that we can enjoy something more brightly colored. Too bad, because they are fantastic.

Julie

PDDM · 07-16-04, 07:03 PM

Ok...hmmm I'm totaly lost I'm going to have to do alot of reading on this subject,any sites that give good info on this(I'll read the genetics and etc. stuff from the book but any other useful stuff)???
But Can Anyone tell Me in The Simplest Form How To Get A dark Leo like the one shown above????

Denise101 · 07-16-04, 11:32 PM

Heres a picture of a Hyper-Melanistic I think their reaily cool and would love to own some but i never seen any for sale. i dont even know of anyone who breeds them.

Matt.B · 07-17-04, 02:05 AM

Ohh I've got a little sub-adult female that looks exactly like that. A "hyper_malenistic" leo is just a midnight blizz.
Matt

dj_honeycuts · 07-17-04, 03:44 AM

*rubs hands together and thinks to himself-"finally get to use some of this post secondary for a subject I like to talk about"*

A hyper or super melanistic leopard gecko is exactly what lifeline, Denise and Julie have stated - a nomal leo that has increased spotting, while in more extreme cases of the line they have reduced yellow pigment that has also been replaced by more melanin. This a genetic trait, but not in the same sense as one dominent or recessive allele controling how the trait is expressed, eg normal-dominent or albino-recessive. It's true that these are line bred, but the genetic trait for the melanin still has to be present in the parents, and as you get a recombination of the two parents genes there is the possibility that some of the offspring are going to have a genetic coding with even more of this trait being expressed. In the wild this would begin to occur population wide, if say for instance there was a population migration to an area with darker rocks. Anything light would easily be picked off by predators. This is how line breeding works, and it has everything to do with genetics. It's true that you can't have het for tangerine, high yellow, golden, or hyper melanistic, and anyone who would claim this is probably out to make a fast buck, but all these colorforms still do revolve around genetic traits.
As for temperature affecting color expression, this all has to do with the amount and types of enzymes that are allowing for decoding of certain pigments. Lower temps produce darker colors to allow for the hatchling to retain more heat, thereby giving it a better chance for survival. Higher temps produce lighter colors, allowing the hatchling to maintain homeostasis in a warmer environment, once again giving it a better chance for survival. In theory, if you consistently bred leos at lower temps you would eventually start to produce offspring that would retain more of the melanin, but it would be harder to produce males at these temps, and you run the risk of having consistently weak hatchlings. This is why it is said that you have to be wary of breeders who who hatch eggs at really high temps; when you breed them yourself the color may not be truly expressed at lower incubation temps, and you may not end up getting the offspring you expected.
Holy windbag!

Hope this clears this up for you a little.

672 · 07-17-04, 11:38 AM

Great post Honeycuts!

damzookeeper · 07-17-04, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dj_honeycuts
*rubs hands together and thinks to himself-"finally get to use some of this post secondary for a subject I like to talk about"*

A hyper or super melanistic leopard gecko is exactly what lifeline, Denise and Julie have stated - a nomal leo that has increased spotting, while in more extreme cases of the line they have reduced yellow pigment that has also been replaced by more melanin. This a genetic trait, but not in the same sense as one dominent or recessive allele controling how the trait is expressed, eg normal-dominent or albino-recessive. It's true that these are line bred, but the genetic trait for the melanin still has to be present in the parents, and as you get a recombination of the two parents genes there is the possibility that some of the offspring are going to have a genetic coding with even more of this trait being expressed. In the wild this would begin to occur population wide, if say for instance there was a population migration to an area with darker rocks. Anything light would easily be picked off by predators. This is how line breeding works, and it has everything to do with genetics. It's true that you can't have het for tangerine, high yellow, golden, or hyper melanistic, and anyone who would claim this is probably out to make a fast buck, but all these colorforms still do revolve around genetic traits.
As for temperature affecting color expression, this all has to do with the amount and types of enzymes that are allowing for decoding of certain pigments. Lower temps produce darker colors to allow for the hatchling to retain more heat, thereby giving it a better chance for survival. Higher temps produce lighter colors, allowing the hatchling to maintain homeostasis in a warmer environment, once again giving it a better chance for survival. In theory, if you consistently bred leos at lower temps you would eventually start to produce offspring that would retain more of the melanin, but it would be harder to produce males at these temps, and you run the risk of having consistently weak hatchlings. This is why it is said that you have to be wary of breeders who who hatch eggs at really high temps; when you breed them yourself the color may not be truly expressed at lower incubation temps, and you may not end up getting the offspring you expected.
Holy windbag!
Hope this clears this up for you a little.

That just about says it all! Good job dj_honeycuts

Gregg M · 07-18-04, 01:51 PM

A midnight blizzard is NOT hypermelanistic...... Midnight blizzards do not even stay as dark as the babies when they are adults...... Blizzards can be a bunch of different colors....... I have a female that is almost a purpleish color....... She was almost black as a baby.....