Ever want to hold your hots?

jtpRUGGER · 05-19-04, 11:46 AM

Ok, the thread on the B. arietans made me think of writing this post. It's probably just kinda silly, but I thought it might get some interesting responses.

I was wondering if any hotkeepers out there ever feel the urge to pick up and hold ("cuddle", so to speak) their hots. I've noticed it with a few of mine, namely my rhino, a dusky pig, and my female panamint speck. I've always felt the urge to pick these specimens up and hold them...I get the feeling (although I know it is completely FALSE) that they want me to just pick them up. Any of you guys (or gals) know what I mean?

As a disclaimer, I want to state here that I have NEVER attempted to hold them for this reason. I only use hooks, tail only when COMPLETELY necessary, and prefer not to have to pin ever. I feel as long as I'm keeping them, the less physical interaction I have with them, the better (so long as they remain in good physical health).

MsTT · 05-19-04, 12:43 PM

I don't even get the urge to do that with nonvenomous snakes. It's like I have these hardwired reflexes that don't go away even when I know it's only a corn snake or a ball python. I feel weird freehandling any snake. What feels natural to me is hooking and tailing.

I get lots of hands-on time with snakes because I do a lot of medication, vet exams, etc. And routine cage maintenance generally involves a gentle tailing over to the safety bin. So no, I don't have any urges to do any more than I already do with snakes. Except keep more of them.

Gary O · 05-19-04, 05:56 PM

I can not speak about the Hot snakes but I do handle many of my Snakes(all nonvenomous). I do have many that just hate me. Try to think of ways to bite me lol. But they all are beautiful.

Now when I get hots I will look but only handle when the time comes I have too. And then hooks are my friends lol

YummyCdnMale · 05-19-04, 06:19 PM

I don't care how much i love my 11 foot burm, python i know if i try hug her i am good as bit. They say it's equal to a hammer hitting you i'll never know.... Guess it comes down to do you love your hots enough to lose a limb or maybe even death? I would'nt chance it and i would recoment if you start to take those chances it's time to get rid of those hots

jtpRUGGER · 05-19-04, 07:01 PM

I put the disclaimers in to avoid that confusion...I would never even consider attempting to hold them, I was strictly talking about the desire to. I thought it might be interesting to see if anyone had any theories on it, or to hear common feelings from fellow herpers. Sorry about the miscommunication.

M_surinamensis · 05-19-04, 11:57 PM

I know exactly what you mean Josh.

Might be something in the human genome which says "Pretty... must touch." While, like you I would never freehandle any hot snake (Well... you know what I mean, I'm not going to worry about most colubrid envenomations), I also sometimes get that faint urge to just pick one up.

I also get the same urge around blinking lights, shiny pieces of metal and anything that looks like it might make a "cool noise" though, so...

snakehunter · 05-20-04, 04:52 AM

I would like to handle ALL snakes, but the venom in some is a bit of a deterant

psilocybe · 05-20-04, 10:36 AM

I posted a comment on that thread about Bitis arietans that went something like this (in response to the pictures posted):

Cute little devil! Almost want to kiss him...well, maybe not

Well, yes, the little puff was cute
But would I ever, ever, ever stick any part of my flesh close enough to any venomous snake to get bitten...not a chance...monkeys would fly out of my cornhole before I decided to kiss (or pick up or irresponsibly handle) any hot. I will say though, if a monkey or monkeys do fly out of my cornhole, I will be obligated to start freehandling hots.

AP

Edit: When I said i'd never, ever, ever put myself close enough to a hot to get bitten, I meant intentionally. The other day while out in the desert herping, I almost stepped on an atrox. Funny, I was looking for snakes, I found another atrox before this one, about 100 feet away, but I didn't see this one. Got about a foot away (this was about a 3 footer, so I was just within strike range) and she obliged me with a warning rattle. I felt very thankful to her. She was in a short little plant/bush kind of thing (lol) that is much easier to step over than step around. I'm making extra sure to check every plant I step over now to make sure I can see all it's inhabitants...

AP

M_surinamensis · 05-20-04, 12:19 PM

I'm not sure if maybe people just misread Josh's post or what...

He's not asking if you DO or WOULD freehandle... Just asking if that subtle impulse is sometimes present to reach out and make physical contact. Like babies with hanging mobiles and anything that's a bright color- simply controlled because it's not safe. Humans are a lot more tactile than I believe we frequently realize... we take a great deal of information about the world around us in through our fingertips. It doesn't mean the urge is uncontrollable or something that will eventually doom an individual to inevitable envenomation... Just a faint and quickly disregarded impulse to touch.

Edit: Called Josh "Scott" the two of 'em are always yammering away about medical degree this and sistrus that and I'm very tired.

jtpRUGGER · 05-20-04, 12:37 PM

Thank you for the clarification, Seamus...I guess people were just misreading my original post. As you said, I wasn't trying to suggest that I ever do, or would freehandle...as I said, I'm all about hooks.

Cruciform · 05-20-04, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Might be something in the human genome which says "Pretty... must touch."

I think it's called the Darwin Gene

I totally understand the impulse too. With that, and my crappy reflexes, I will never have a hot of my own

sps · 05-20-04, 01:59 PM

Josh, I will personally KILL you if you ever try to pet your rhino viper (you won't need to worry about him!).... Haven't we talked about this before, he doesn't want to cuddle!

psilocybe · 05-20-04, 03:02 PM

If I ever did get the impulse to touch (in an irresponsible manner) or "cuddle" with a hot, it was so quickly dismissed that I can't recall it...

AP

jtpRUGGER · 05-21-04, 12:09 AM

Thanks to all that responded to the post...particularly Cruciform and Seamus...I think you guys understood best what I was actually asking...And Sps, you know me better than that...

The reason I initially started this thread runs a little deeper than simply wondering if others had ever noticed that impulse. I knew that it wasn't a totally uncommon phenomenon, however, I was hoping to hear from more of the seasoned keepers, to hear them acknowledge having similar experiences. Perhaps I was more off track than I thought, and it is a unique impulse for a few, however, the current trend with venomoids suggests otherwise.

Many hobbyists with interests in snakes specifically are unable to receive proper venomous training prior to keeping snakes. They find an interest in a venomous species, but instead of taking the time to learn about proper safety techniques, they follow more basic impulses, namely: those urging one to touch something beautiful and interesting. With the availability of venomoids right now, this unfortunately gives them this opportunity.

Scott is doing great things right now with his venomoid petition. I was one of the first to sign, and I wholeheartedly believe in, and agree with his efforts. Unfortunately, despite having the immediate effect of increased awareness, fighting with legislators can be a timely process. Although this, IMO, is the best way to address the issue, I feel more can be done in the mean-time.

By discussing certain common interests and impulses in a way that possible venomoid keepers can identify with, perhaps the opportunity for exposure to more appropriate procedures, attitudes, and states of mind from both novices, as well as the more experienced keepers will have a direct effect on those potential v'oid purchasers. These are just my $.02, but it seemed like a creative twist away from the typical "venomoids are bad because..." threads.

psilocybe · 05-21-04, 10:25 AM

I signed and support Scott's petition 100%. Venomoid hackers are a crap stain in the world of herpers...and while I'd like to see the practice completely banned outright, we have to start somewhere, and making it harder for people to aquire venomoids (and consequently raising the price by forcing it to be done by vets) is a good start.

AP