What kind of scorpion is this?

oxfordpaintball · 04-29-04, 09:13 PM

Hey.. a friend gave me this scorp.. and he told me it was a Madagascar Scorpion (Grophus madagascariensis).. however it looks like a regular Emperor to me...

What do you think?

skinheaddave · 04-29-04, 09:33 PM

Well, it isn't G.madagascariensis, that's for sure. From the picture it could be Pandinus, Heterometrus, Diplocentrus, Opisthacanthus etc. etc. etc. About the only real info I can offer is that I once saw a Opisthacanthus sp. IDed as G.madagascariensis in a Sudbury pet shop. There is an O.madagascariensis, so I suspect that was the origin of the problem. A closer pic would really be helpful.

Cheers,
Dave

oxfordpaintball · 04-29-04, 09:35 PM

have MSN? or email? i can send you better pics on there..

I had to resize the image to upload it..

my msn is oxfordpaintball@hotmail.com

Gregg M · 04-30-04, 07:09 AM

Well Actually, It does look like an Opisthacanthus species due to the large claws, large body and skinny little tail..... but it is not O. madagascariensis because of the lack of a tellow stinger.... At first I thought it could be O. capensis but the claws are not rough looking enough...... I think it can be O. lecomtei...... Thats what it looks like to me...... I know for sure it is not Pandinus or heterometrus......

skinheaddave · 04-30-04, 07:23 AM

Gregg,

And what magical feature are you using on a pic that small to say it isn't a Pandinus instar? It could even be an instar of something like H.cyaneus -- but not H.spinifer or H.longimanus, which still have thinner chela at the size where they have the thin metasomas. It pays to remember the allometric patterns in scorpions. Also, stinger colouration is a poor way of IDing all but a few species, since the colour is often polymorphic and/or different in instars and mature scorpions. I know lots of people that use telson colouration to differentiate Pandinus and Heterometrus -- both within and between the genera. Most of the time it does them right, but I have seen mistakes made -- especially with instars.

oxfordpaintball,

I have sent you a message about how you can get pictures to me. I have a key for Opisthacanthus, so if it proves to be one I can help you ID to species. Another possibility is Cheloctonus, which is often confused for Opisthacanthus but can be differentiated by the rows of denticles on the cutting edge of the chela.

Cheers,
Dave

Gregg M · 04-30-04, 07:38 AM

Well Dave,
I know for sure its not a Pandinus or Heterometrus by the shape of the claws and the size of the tail and the size of the telson compared to the size of the other physical features...... Its not magic, its obsevation..... Every single O. madgascariensis I ever had and saw pics of had tellow telsons, so that is a pretty accurate way to exclude that species...... Ofcorse I may not be right but it was a very good observation....... What magical feature did you use to exclude O. madagascariensis?????

skinheaddave · 04-30-04, 07:50 AM

From that angle at that size, a P.imperator instar (somewhere in the 3rd-4th range) could look exactly like that. I have seen simple "observation" from pics lead people wrong as often as it has led them right.

I haven't excluded O.madagascariensis. I excluded G.madagascariensis because the specimen in question is obviously not a Grosphus.

EDIT: Reading this through, it sounds a bit harsh. Sorry. Anyhow, while I agree with you that it is probably Opisthacanthus (or Cheloctonus), I have learned to be very conservative when IDing based on single, low-quality shots. A slightly different angle and chela shape can change dramatically, for example. Anyhow, that is just my take -- it is better not to ID down to a level that you don't have enough firm characters to support.

Cheers,
Dave

Gregg M · 04-30-04, 08:05 AM

Ah, my mistake..... I got the G and the O confused...... I still cant see it being Pandinus or heterometrus..... In either case, it is being kept on sand and it should not be...... I know you know your stuff, and I am not trying to argue..... You are right that the angle can change the claw shape..... But that is a pretty straight on shot...... Well anyway, I hope a possitive ID can be made so he han keep it in the correct conditions......
Oh and there is no need to be sorry...... I did not think you were coming off too harsh.....LOL..... Ok maybe alittle, but who dosnt come off harsh sometimes.....

skinheaddave · 04-30-04, 08:21 AM

Fair enough. And yes, the sand is bound to be wrong. On the bright side, if it is Cheloctonus or Diplocentrus he may be able to use the sand as a component of the substrate.

Cheers,
Dave

oxfordpaintball · 04-30-04, 08:49 AM

dave- I will email you better pictures with another angle this afternoon when i get home..

As for the sand.. I guess i'll take him of the sand and put him on Forest Bed? (the expandable substrate that you buy in a dried brick) would that be alright?
and what should i be doing for humidity?

SaIiLdVaEnR · 04-30-04, 03:27 PM

My guess is Opistacanthus Apser. Dave, do you think it could be said scorpion? OPB sent me some pics, and by images and behavior my thought is that it could be.

Aidan

Gregg M · 04-30-04, 03:35 PM

I am not too sure about it being O. asper because the legs look kind of dark..... O. asper has light brown to yellow legs...... Just another observation......

SaIiLdVaEnR · 04-30-04, 03:55 PM

I asked OPB, they said it looks a lot alike, who knows though.

Aidan

skinheaddave · 04-30-04, 03:59 PM

I have an O.asper (keyed out using Lourenco's "Diagnose Du Genre Opisthacanthus") that has fairly dark limbs. That being said, the anterior notch on the prosoma doesn't look quite right -- may just be the angle. One thing I will say based on the closeups, though, is that it is definitely an Opisthacanthus or Cheloctonus. Getting a look at the denticles would be the first step towards ID, but that is sometimes hard to do.

So yes, Aidan, it COULD be said scorpion, but I am still unsure as to the genus, never mind the species.

Cheers,
Dave

oxfordpaintball · 04-30-04, 07:57 PM

Update.. For the time being(until i can get some very detailed pictures) I am going to use the care sheets for Opistacanthus Asper.. I have moved it onto Forest Bed i think.. its the expandable substrate that comes in a dried brick.. and have given it a few more logs to climb on and the humidity is about 80% not too high just incase it doesnt need that much but high enough that it should have a comfortable climate.. and he seems much much more active..

Gregg- About the leg colour.. it is a brown colour.. not yellow but very brown compared to the body.. and the stinger/end of tail (not good with actual terms yet) is a yellow/brown colour.. i would say more yellow than brown actually

thanks alot Dave, Gregg, and Aidan.. You have all been very helpful in trying to identify this scorpion.. Even tho we haven't figured out exactly what it is.. I have gotten enough valuable information to properly house it.