Some species for a 'not so new' beginner?

DragnDrop · 01-16-04, 07:27 PM

I've read a lot of info on king and milk snakes, but haven't had much feedback from actual keepers with hands on experience. This summer I'm hoping to get a pair of Mexican Milk snakes, but I also want to get one or two other species sometime next winter or spring. What are your opinions on scarlet kings (L t. elapsoides) for a 'not quite so novice' snake keeper? I've had corns before, but due to a very idiotic insurance problem, I'm limited to snakes around 36 inches or less. This isn't a problem for me, since a lot of the ones I find visually appealing fall into that range. My big thing right now is to research which ones would be suitable for someone with approximately one year snake experience, though I've got over 10 years with geckos and dart frogs so I'm not completely new to the general herp hobby. If you can think of any other king or milk species that might be suitable, preferably with red, orange and/or yellow, let me know. I've got about a year to research and get ready.

Thanks

Tim_Cranwill · 01-16-04, 07:48 PM

Scarlets are one of the trickier (word?) kings for sure. Very cool looking though. Ask Crimsonking for advice on them.

Pueblans can stay right around that 36" range. If you can get them to stop musking, they are really cool little snakes.

Joe · 01-16-04, 09:43 PM

I have kept them before and as long as you have well started hatchlings there wonderfull to work with, I started mine on pictus gecko's, after a few month I started them on scented pinkies, I do have to say though it was a real pain getting them on to pinks, but they did well afterwards, good luck if you get them!

Stockwell · 01-17-04, 10:02 AM

Hilde, I have kept most of the milks and kings. You can mail me anytime for direct input as I feel partially responsible for getting you into snakes

I still breed Annulata.. they are a good snakes with no major headaches.
I'd have to suggest you keep away from elapsoides.
They are really too small for captive propagation and the babies don't eat well in captivity.
You'll also find it almost impossible to find CB stock for this reason.
WC's don't usually fair too well

Stockwell · 01-17-04, 10:16 AM

Oh, you didn't make the mistake of telling your insurance company you keep snakes did you?
I once enquired about getting mine insured...
That was a huge mistake.. Not only wouldn't they insure them

In a week I found myself without a policy, they pulled my apartment coverage and my vehicle policy as well. I've also heard of snake keepers being denied life insurance. They figure where there's smoke there's fire!(ie hots)
Snake keepers are freaks, didn't you know that. We represent the disturbed fringe, and they prefer normal people with furry harmless things like Pit Bulls.
That's what I was told, in less frank terms.
I complained to the Insurance Bureau of Canada, and was told I had no rights to be insured.
They are all businesses...They can pick and chose whoever they like and drop you at the first sign of social aberrancy

Linds · 01-17-04, 10:44 AM

I think a Pueblan would fit your description perfectly

As Tim mentioned, they do musk a lot though. Mine is named Rocket because everytime you open the rubbermaid or put her back in it, she tries rocket out of it

She actually did when Shane tried to take her out at the expo... straight out of the deli cup and took off on the floor

Anyways, appearance and size-wise, they match your description, if you don't mind their spastic nature, they would be perfect

Tim_Cranwill · 01-17-04, 01:38 PM

Yikes Roy, that's a crappy deal.

Hilde, Pueblans <i>should</i> calm down with age and gentle handling.

Just don't wear your best shirt when holding the young ones!

DragnDrop · 01-17-04, 01:50 PM

Thanks for the input, everyone. The scarlet kings really appeal to me, but I'll take them off my list and leave them for the experienced.

Linds, your snake looks like what I've got in mind for colours, she's gorgeous

I'll replace the scarlet kings with Pueblan and make a note to stock up on Nok-out

I didn't really "tell" my insurance agent I had snakes, it kind of slipped out. I've known and dealt with her for almost 20 years, even worked with her years ago. We aren't good friends, just 'good acquaintances', and she knows I have a house full of geckos and dart frogs. It didn't seem such a big problem to mention I had corn snakes -- after all, how dangerous are they? It seems the insurance considers large snakes to be dangerous to humans and fire hazards. Their idea of 'large' starts at 3 feet. As long as I stay with species whose 'accepted average' size isn't above that, I'm covered. There was nothing mentioned about venomous snakes. Since corns can easily average over 3 feet, they're out. If the snakes I keep have an accepted species average length under 3 feet, but mine is a bit longer, it's okay. If I were to keep a nervous, highly venomous snake that's only 2 feet long (not that I even know if there is such a species), would they be okay with it?? All I want is some snakes, nothing lethal, nothing large, just nice pet snakes. At least I have insurance, so I can't complain too much. It sure would be nice if the insurance companies were to come to their senses and consider the capabilities of the keeper(s), the security and safety features of carefully constructed enclosures and the likelihood of someone being attacked by the snake(s) in question.

Roy, you are kind of responsible, you helped plant the 'snake keeping' seed. Thanks

Stockwell · 01-17-04, 05:28 PM

You're welcome! Maybe I can help you with a Pueblan or Mex milk next year.

crimsonking · 01-17-04, 06:05 PM

On the scarlet kings, you're probably best to wait for a while on them. I spend a lot of time actually talking people out of buying them at shows I do. Not that they're impossible-- they just demand more time especially when they're young. An overlooked snake that is great in my opinion is a mexican king. L. m. mexicana. Some are every bit as beautiful as a gray band without many troubles at all. Really, ANY of the mexicana complex will fit your bill and are generally very calm even as babies-- unlike most milks.
:Mark

Stockwell · 01-17-04, 08:11 PM

Yup, I'll second that.. M&M'are great as are thayeri, greeri and blairi/alterna.
I've bred them all, and I recommend them all..
Unfortunately I coudln't find a Canadian market for them in the 90's and shipped them all south

tai_pan1 · 01-18-04, 02:29 PM

My 2 cents...

I picked up a couple of pueblan milks this year and love them. They are both eating machines. The male has calmed down a lot and rarely musks. the female I'm still working on

. Color wise, they're beautiful and the should stay in the 30-36 inch range. Only draw back is that they don't like to be seen. They come out at night a lot though.

Good luck!

Mike

Gillards · 01-18-04, 05:26 PM

Hey Hilde,
They are all good choices. We have always been fans of the mexicanna complex.
Lorraine
Gillard's Herps Canada

Classic · 01-20-04, 08:10 AM

I have to say you'll enjoy the pueblans alot . Yes, they are flighty and dislike being disturbed but, with the right conditions and moderate conditioning for handling, you'll be a very happy herper. My adult pueblans as well as my juvi are very acustomed to being handled and have not musked on me in the recent past. They are a hearty animal and do very well in captivity.
I havn't had my Mexican Milks long enough to accurately comment on them but they are significantly calmer than the pueblan. Both are equally pretty.

Good Luck.

Brian