still not laying - any suggestions

choriona · 12-15-03, 12:34 PM

Okay, you may remember my story about Cylo and Petri a while back. (Veileds) She was gravid when she went to his cage - and she is still gravid now. She is sooo full of eggs you can see them bulging in her throat pouch area and in her pelvis. BUT, she dosen't seem interested in laying the eggs. I have to trust that she is a wild animal and instincts will tell her what to do - so my conclusion is a husbandry issue.
I am misting her twice daily, and even started forcing 1cc syringe of water into her mouth. I believe she is a bit dehydrated because her saliva is mucousy. That is the reason for forcing. She freaks out if I just drip water on her.
She has had a ferocious appetite up until last week. I dusted her food every feeding, so I am sure she has gotten enough calcium. She wouldn't even wait for me to put the food dish down before running over to the feeding spot.
She has plenty of digging area right in her cage, with enough cover I believe.
The other day, I found her out of her cage, on the ground. I guessed she was looking for a place to lay, so I moved her into the lay bucket. I kept her in there two days (with water) but she didn't even try to dig. I even started a tunnel for her.
SOOOOO, anyone have any suggestions?
Has anyone had an oxytocin injection from the vet? Or surgery?
I heard that reptiles have a very poor recovery rate from surgery, so I am really not wanting to go that route just yet.

Thanks for reading.

Collide · 12-15-03, 03:10 PM

ok id try keeping the container in with her so she can go when she is ready. make sure the soil is the right consistancy. watch for signs of trouble.

Wuntu Menny · 12-16-03, 10:36 PM

I'd love to make a suggestion, but you seem to have addressed all the issues already. If she's that full, she should have started digging in anything available. I've even seen females rooting around in newspaper or digging at nothing on a bare cage floor.

The fact that you can see eggs in the throat region is not good. Egg bound females often asphyxiate from pressure on the lungs. Oxytocin is a last resort and not adviseable in chams as they don't tolerate that sort of intervention very well at all. I've never heard of surgical extractions from live chameleons, so I wouldn't be able to help with that either.

You've tried all of my tricks already, I guess keep trying is all I can say. Good luck

WM

choriona · 12-17-03, 11:57 AM

Thanks guys.....she is just going about her business in her enclosure still. Her cloaca is starting to look a bit distended now. I am hoping that she dosen't develop a prolapse. I'll be putting her back into the lay bucket again today if I can catch her. (she has a few places in her house that I can't get to.)

choriona · 12-20-03, 05:13 PM

Yea! WEll, cylo has been in the lay bucket since the 17th and she finally laid her eggs! I can stop holding my breath! She completed the act last night and is just covering them up today. I am not sure if they are fertilized, so I will be incubating them just in case. I gave her a few drink breaks during her stay in the bucket, just dripping a water bottle down her face. She readily accepted it.
She is 2 1/2 and this is her first time laying eggs.
At first she didn't really know what to do. It was so funny. But I am glad it is over.......I'll count the eggs tonight.

sleddergirl · 12-20-03, 10:08 PM

I am so happy to hear that she has layed!.....now you can be at ease......lol. I'm also hoping that the eggs are fertile..........

Sue

ohh_kristina · 12-20-03, 10:46 PM

congrats and good luck with the eggs!

Wuntu Menny · 12-20-03, 11:11 PM

Good news, thanks for the update. That's really odd that she's only laying her first clutch at 2 1/2. That probably has some connection to all the difficulties in dropping them.

Infertile eggs are easy to spot once you've seen a fertile clutch. They're slightly yellow, and have a sort of wrinkled appearance as well as being much smaller. If you've got them in the incubator, your nose will inform you within 72 hours whether they're good or not.

Good luck,

WM

Collide · 12-21-03, 03:20 AM

yea 2 1/2 is a weird age to start lol but hey i have a almost 3 year old panther that has never laied err and she is the only one that i want to breed lol oh well she is helthy guess i can complain. yea infirtal eggs are much smaller and have a different color. you will learn to reconize them...

choriona · 12-22-03, 01:20 PM

I have counted the eggs...there are only 55. I was expecting a huge number because of how fat she was. I am not fully convinced that all the eggs have been laid either. There is still egg impressions in her body. Especially her throat pouch. I am keeping an eye on her.
The eggs were small, so I am assuming they are infertile. They are less than a centemeter long, and some are almost circular.

It is weird that she is so old having her first clutch, but I have a guess as to the reasoning. For the first part of her life (up to 6 months ago) all her food was dusted with Rep Cal with D3. (the pink container) I didn't realize at the time that you need to mix that with a multi-vitamen. I didn't read the small print. So, her and her brother have had a deficiency for their whole life. Her brother almost died on me because of it.
So, we are on cricket dust now and things are looking a lot better.