Jason the f***ing idiot

dank7oo · 10-11-03, 09:41 PM

i am the biggest idiot in the world. i noticed today, by fault of my own, that mika as the VERY early stages of edema. i found out why she got it (thanks to chris anderson) and i have made the changes needed to my gutloading. The one problem i still have however is supplementation.
What is the proper supplementation for an adult ceph? I am thinking calcium and d3 once a week, herptivite once a week, and multi-vitamins once a week, but i have no idea
well i am out changing everything, what is the proper dusting schedule for max, using the supplements listed above .. dont wanna mess him up too
Pease let me know
Jason

tHeGiNo · 10-12-03, 08:14 AM

How old is Mika?

Wuntu Menny · 10-12-03, 08:22 AM

I have used the same regimen for all my chams with no ill effects. Cal/D3 or MinerAll with every feeding during the week, and RepCal multivitamin once on the weekend.

Age can be a factor as theGino just pointed out. If in fact there is signs of edema, it could just as easily be the result of an aging cham with cardiopulmonary issues cropping up. Cephalolepis only have a 2-3 year life expectancy to start with. Ultimately, a blood analysis is the only certain means of determining if supplementation is the cause.

WM

tHeGiNo · 10-12-03, 08:35 AM

Wuntu, do you supplement with calcium daily even with adults? Isn't there a possibilty of oversupplementation?

dank7oo · 10-12-03, 08:55 AM

thegino - thats essentially what my problem was, i had over supplemented her. Chris Anderson went over my gutloading and supplementing practices, and we concluded that she had too much V.A and too much calcium .. i had only been using the calcium and a multi-vitamin on the weekends, and my gutloading mixture contained mainly carrots which are high in V.A

so calcium 3 times, miner-all 2 times, and a multi-vitamin once and a day off? .. is that for juvies along with adults?

mika is doing great .. like i said, its a very mild swelling right nw, and if i hadnt done reseach of diseases lately, i would have never noticed ... she is 15-18 months old, and besides this little 'incident' she is doing fine

meow_mix450 · 10-12-03, 09:06 AM

ooo kool thats great to hear...but keep us posted if something happens

Meow

tHeGiNo · 10-12-03, 09:15 AM

Carrots, in high quantities, are actually bad for your reptiles. It binds to the calcium, I am not sure in depth of its effects but I know it does that. For an adult I would swoop down to once a week on the calcium supplementation. Once every two weeks on the multivitamins, if at all. A good gut load should take the place of the multivitamin. Feed the crickets a varied green diet with a small amount of carrots.

meow_mix450 · 10-12-03, 09:21 AM

then can i gutload my crikets fruits???? or is that a bad thing

tHeGiNo · 10-12-03, 09:45 AM

Depends what kind of fruit. I gutload my crickets with dark greens and potato's for water.

Wuntu Menny · 10-12-03, 09:51 AM

Gino:
Yes, I use almost the same routine with adults. I will, on occasion, offer one feeding per week with no supplement whatsoever. I also use full spec lighting as opposed to high UV as many sources suggest. I've never encountered any problems this way. My calyptratus female is 4 1/2 years old right now and she has been raised on this schedule since she was 3 weeks old. I would imagine there is a possibility of over supplementation but I've yet to see any signs in any of my animals.

Jason:
One reason I use the RepCal multi is that the vitamin A source is betacarotine. According to the "experts", this allows the animal to convert only what it's systems require to vitamin A and avoids the dreaded "hypervitaminosis A" that we read so much about.

This is only my opinions and observations that have lead me to this course of action. I've found that cham care has been more of sixth sense sort of affair. I've read as much as I can and drawn my own conclusions from the vast selection of conflicting testimonies.

There seems to be more than one way to relieve the proverbial feline of it's fur. Many keepers adopt as many different methods of meeting their cham's needs. I won't claim that my way is the right way, but it seems to be working.

WM

tHeGiNo · 10-12-03, 09:59 AM

Fair enough, I was just curious. I now understand that certain chameleons are more susceptable to oversupplementation then others. Do you still gutload the crickets?

dank7oo · 10-12-03, 10:06 AM

i do, but currently i am using a 'premade' gutload until i have the time to make one myself

Wuntu Menny · 10-12-03, 10:22 AM

I do as well, but my preparation probably isn't as complete as many others. I use a low protein, drug free poultry feed as the base and incorporate herp supplements into it. One batch will contain just Cal, another Cal/D3, the next one will be MinerAll, and then multi. I gutload the prey on a rotating schedule this way and this might also contribute to the "balance" we seem to have achieved.

WM

dank7oo · 10-12-03, 10:53 AM

that is a good way - if your chams are kept inside, how many times a week is d3 required? 3?

Wuntu Menny · 10-12-03, 08:46 PM

Good question. I couldn't say how often its required, only that they receive it about three times a week.