Weight difference in Mates

Will · 09-27-03, 08:57 PM

Well, it's coming to that time when the breeders will have to start getting ready for the winter. I have a pair of Cals that will be (hopefully) breeding next spring and had a question in particular about my male.

Is there a problem with pairing up a pair of Calis(or any Lampropeltis for sake of discussion) when there is a rather significant weight/size difference...? Is there an effect on sperm production when a male is under a certain weight...? My female is almost a kilo right now(980g a couple days ago, but she's eaten since) and I have no problem with the weight she's got on this year. My 2.5 year-old male(July '01) is only 350g though, and I am wondering if there may be a problem next year when it comes to putting him in with a female almost 3 times his size. I don't plan on having them together without supervising of course, but am I headed for a situation where she's gonna look at him as food rather than as a partner...? I was hoping to have him near 500g before the winter, but he's not going to get near that this year.

**Andy_G** · 09-27-03, 10:21 PM

You'll just have to watch that she doesn't eat him.

MarcB · 09-28-03, 07:52 AM

A 350 gr. male can succesfully mate with a much larger female, it depends on the individual male, he can however be intimidated by larger females BUT if he is confident, he will jump all over a female that is ovulating and willing. What you do before introducing them is take the female's freashly shed skin and put in the males tank and watch his reaction. If he spends a great amount of time smelling the shed skin, you can bet the female is ready and this will give your male the scent trail to follow/look for the ovulating female.

I like to socialize my younger males with the larger ladies, remember that in the wild smaller snakes spend most of their time avoiding being a meal. If socialize the year before they are meant to breed, success rate is much better.

Make sure the female is stuffed before socializing!

Marc B
SbS

Will · 09-28-03, 11:50 AM

Thanks Marc, maybe I will let them meet for a short period a few times before they go down for the year. I guess I can guage his reaction to her then. I think he may be a little intimidated, he was eating great early in the year, but when he moved in with the rest of the pack, he stopped eating as often as he was.

Will · 09-28-03, 12:15 PM

She just ate a couple of mice less than 2 days ago, so I figured I may as well give it a shot now before I go off to work. They met and checked each other out for about 10 minutes. No musking, rattling, striking or posturing. No nervous-ness and they came face-to-face several times. So all went well. He definitely seemed more interested in her than she did in him, in fact I think he "got off" on the whole experience

. Just a couple of small spots on her back, not a whole lot, but I definitely wasn't expecting that to happen. I guess that answers the question of whether he's willing to go next year, lol. Maybe he'll start eating regularily now that he's released some of his tensions. Gotta go clean my girl up now, heheh...

MarcB · 09-28-03, 05:53 PM

I would say that is a good sign! At least you know he likes her....

gonesnakee · 10-06-03, 01:16 PM

You can always put him down late & bring him up early to try & get some extra meals into him. The big thing is too make sure she is full & to monitor them. It sounds like they will be fine together though. I have some females that can't be trusted too much, one that actually has ate a male mate (prior my care, shipping incident), but she has been good since. Its the ones that bite you off of snake scent that you have to worry about. My "cannibal" is one of those. Good luck on you breeding. Mark I.

Tim_Cranwill · 10-06-03, 02:37 PM

Stop me if you've heard this one...

I had two cal kings together for a few days without incident. Then I decided to clean the cage they were both in and once I put them in the new cage, the larger of the two, the female, started to stalk the smaller one and had his head in her mouth within two seconds! She had wrapped him all up and was trying to eat him so fast I couldn't even react. It took me and my wife to get her off of him. It was just crazy how quickly her "attitude" changed...

This coming season, I have a different male lined up to breed with her but he is only about 300g to her 500-600g. He's going to go down late and come out early to put on some extra pounds like Mark said. Hopefully their hormones will surpass their appetites!

They are going to make some killer 50/50's this spring!

Will · 10-07-03, 12:34 AM

Well he seems intent on going down now whether I want him to or not. He's refused food for the last 3.5 weeks, another week or so and I'll start cooling him down, though I may just bring him back earlier than her to pack on some weight.

BTW, what is the minimum brumation length for a male...?

Tim_Cranwill · 10-07-03, 09:43 AM

I would say the minimum is no brumation. He could still breed but you might not get as much success if not cooled. But when actually brumating 1 month or so is a pretty short brumation. I'd give him two months as a minimum.

Sorry this is such a poorly written post.... I JUST woke up!

vanderkm · 10-08-03, 01:20 PM

Our male jungle corn (king X corn) was brumated at 55 degrees for one month and was fertile and enthusiastic for his first breeding - can't say for sure he wouldn't have done just as well without any cooling - but as little as a month worked for him,

mary v.