Extremely confused....

Clownfishie · 06-08-03, 03:47 PM

Ok... please take a look at these pictures and tell me what you think... because I'm absolutely flabbergasted right now. LOL

This is Cujo, a 2.5 year old leo...

Would you say that that leo is a male, or a female? I bought him as a male at around 6 months old... I see hemipenal bulges, and a row of V shapes pores...

Now take a look at what I found in Cujo's tank today when I went to clean his tank:

He is completely alone in his tank -- Previously he was housed with 2 females, hoping that they would breed -- they didn't, so I started calling him my "gay boy", and separated him so I could put another male in with those girls (who immediately got down to business). He's been on his own for around a month now... only now it looks like my he is probably a she. LOL

Geez... no wonder he didn't breed with the girls. OIE! Just as a further test after taking those pictures to ask your guys' opinion, I decided to have a supervised visit between my confirmed male and Cujo -- if they were both males, I figured that there'd be some fireworks (I was ready to separate them immediately if something happened of course). Nothing. Other than some interest on Ciaran's part in mating... LOL.

So, unless someone has an explanation as to how a male leo can lay eggs and not fight with another male, I'd say that my boy is a girl... LOL

I'm a bit in shock right now -- after almost 2.5 years of
Cujo being a boy, it's going to take some adjustment to get used to him being a her.... I'm not crazy though, right? It *does* look like he's a boy when you look at his underside, right?

I'm off to recover from the shock and finish cleaning cages... LOL

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say though... I've had baby girls turn out to be boys, but never adult boys turn out to be girls!

Here's a pic of the "boys" together in the tub...

Jen

Pixie · 06-08-03, 04:00 PM

I can't just imagine your surprise to find some eggs in a tank that supposedly just had a male! lol Looks like your Cujo is a girl

As for the pics of her underside it does look like a girl. I am in no way an expert but when researching pics on the web to differentiate the sexes visually, some males weren't as clearly males as I would have thought. The bulges seem to vary in size depending on the individual and so do the pores. My girl Lilo has very distinct pores but is definitely a girl. I've also found that it is very easy to mistake the first tail ridges as bulges.

Pixie

MartinW · 06-08-03, 04:12 PM

It looks like Cujo is a girl. I have a Cujo who is also a girl, even though I think Cujo is a boy's name. The previous owner named her Cujo. So if she feels bad for having a boy's name just tell her about my Cujo.

Martin

Clownfishie · 06-08-03, 04:21 PM

LOL -- yeah, I can't see renaming her at this point -- she's been Cujo since I got her... tis a bit odd for a girls name, but I guess she'll have to live with it

As for her bulges and stuff -- I thought that "he" was just a little underdeveloped -- after all, size doesn't matter

"He" looked the same underneath pretty much as my other males, just a little smaller. Guess she just wanted to have me confused... ah well, it's actually more convenient for me that she's a girl now! LOL... "he" was kind of an extra male, but one that I wouldn't even consider selling since he was one of my first leos...

Jen

Edwin · 06-08-03, 07:22 PM

LOL Jen, that is hilarious, I can imagine the look on your face when you found that in Cujo's tank.

Emily-Fisher · 06-08-03, 07:36 PM

What a surprise!! but yeah...in the photo, Cujo <i>does</i> look like a girl. Hmm..well, there's nothing wrong with more females! Haha, wow!

Youkai · 06-08-03, 07:43 PM

I've noticed that some female leos, and MANY female fat tails appear to have bulges. But they aren't too large or defined. They also have very visable pores, but males always have huge pores that are actually secreting stuff.

Tim and Julie B · 06-08-03, 11:06 PM

Yup female!

I had a patternless "female" named Penny, after about 2 months I had to rename "him" Benny. That was at 7 months old too. Sometimes it's very hard to tell. LOL There's always a few surprises!

Clownfishie · 06-08-03, 11:49 PM

Yeah, I've had a few of my younger girls turn out to be males -- just never the other way around

You'd think that if "he" was going to lay infertile eggs, he would've done so before 2.5 years old... ah well

Such is life... I'm sure that she'll make some lovely babies with Ciaran now... LOL

And it did free up a tank for my new little blizzard boy... hehe...

Edwin, I'm sure it would've been something to see my face at that moment

I distincly remember saying "Ummm... Cujo???" when I saw the egg -- LOL

Found the other one under a log... I guess that this explains the complete mess "he" made of the food bowl the other night... dug all of the calcium powder out all over the place... hehe...

Alicewave · 06-09-03, 07:38 AM

Sorry to say he looks pretty female to me. Even females have the "V" it's whether or not you can actually see the vent holes that indicate it's male. She doesn't really have defined hemipenes either. Many females with nice hefty tails have "false" hemipenes.

I dunno if you remember I had the same problem with Murtle. Funny thing is we gave her a girls name when we thought she was a boy! Then we realized later that she wasn't. I'm pretty sure she is a "hot" female and that's why her "hemipenes" are so pronounced. Although i think I might give her another shot with Seneca since if they mated they'd produce some HUGE children.

Samba · 06-09-03, 02:46 PM

I'd say that Cujo is a female in my opinion. In weird instances in nature, male animals have been known to become female, and females into males (refering to a species of fish... just off the top of my head). Wouldn't that be something if our leos could change sexes as well? LOL Good luck with her!

damzookeeper · 06-09-03, 02:49 PM

Yup, got to agree with alicewave there. Definately would say it was a girl. lol, I had two that I thought were males from last year because they had buldges early on. But then Looking at them recently (they are about a year) I noticed the poors still hadn't developed, they are definately females. One is over 45 grams so I put her in the tank with a male and he jumped her first chance he could get. lol. Gave me great pictures.

This tought me that the best way is to look at the pre-anal pores, not the buldges. lol. I decided to look under them in the first place because they had such small heads. lol.

Zoe · 06-09-03, 02:55 PM

I don't think leos could just change sexes, because its chromosomal. If it looked a lot like a male, hermaphroditism might be considered.

However, it does look like a female to me. Males have way bigger bulges and their pre-anal pores are darker and bigger.

Blazin · 06-09-03, 06:24 PM

I have seen this before myself. I also have some fattails that almost look like males but are females. They sure can fool ya huh?

LISA127 · 06-12-03, 09:55 PM

definetely looks female to me. with all my leos, there was no mistaking it if it was a male. and at a pretty early age too.