Feeding Gerbils Instead of Mice or Rats

[unknownclown]

Hey there
Since my larger female refuses rats and I dont think she is getting enough from the mice I feed her. Ive seen the posts on mice and rats and the growth rates but Im curious if anyone knows where gerbils stand in this. Would I be better off trying to get her to feed of rats. Is it even good for them to be power fed so they get larger faster? I know my doc wouldnt go for it (not that I'd wanna ).
I was also wondering of the three foods mice, rats, and gerbils, which would be the fattiest or the meatiest. Im breeding all 3 at the moment which is why I ask.
Also Im curious if gerbils are thier natural food why dont more people feed these to thier ball pythons instead of rats and mice? Is there something I should know about the gerbils that I havent come across while trying to figure out the basic care of them that would make others not use them as a food source?
Am I just full of questions or what? Sorry but I realy have tried to find these answers other places but most sites are set up where gerbils are pets not a food source
Thanks for the replies in advance and Happy Easter !

[marisa]

I *think* people don't fed gerbils because the Ball will get stuck on eating gerbils and for some people who have to buy them, gerbils are expensive compared to mice or rats.

Marisa

[Mike177]

well from what i have heard power feeding is not good and it can cut down on there total life span

[LILCREEP]

gotta agree with mike there ive heard the same

[Jeff_Favelle]

What's the definition of power feeding and when does a regular feeding schedule become a power feeding schedule? ie) how many items over what period of time? I'd be very interested if you actually KNEW the answer.

Its all very well and good that you hear things and you think things and you have theories, but what results and experience do you have to back those claims? Because without it, its just heresay. And that's something that we have an over-abundance of in the herp world.

[vanderkm]

We have used gerbils for feeders for several snake species, but only because I breed a color variety of gerbils and have an abundance of them left over.

Most people don't want to feed them because they cost a lot - due to the fact that they don't do well in colony breeding - they need to be kept as pairs and they have a very slow growth rate compared to rats or mice. It costs a lot more to produce the same weight of gerbil as it does a rat. They also waste a lot of feed - chew up the feed blocks without eating them and they create a lot of dust.

All that aside, we have seen growth spurts in snakes put on gerbils very similar to those we have gotten with rats and they are handy because one gerbil is the equivalent of about 3 mice - so easier to feed. I don't know the percentages of bone and fat for species though, but think a lot of the nutritional value in prey related to the ration the prey species is fed.

Many of our snakes (carpets and colubrids) refuse gerbils - even when offered pinks or fuzzies. When we fed them to our ball pythons, they preferred them to everything else, and I wouldn't give them to ball pythons unless you are prepared to keep them on gerbils - ours were hooked on them. Our boas and a couple carpets, a few kings and corns happily shift back and forth between any prey species. Seems to depend on the snake - just our experience.

mary v.

[mykee]

Jeff, I'd have to agree with you, many people speak ill of "power-feeding", but what is "power-feeding"? Anyone? Is my 10 month old ball "power-fed" because she weighs over 1000g's? Or is she just a good eater that doesn't refuse food? Quite honestly, I have never seen an "obese" ball, or an "overfed" ball. Come on people, these are animals with brains, albeit small brains however, they know not to eat themselves to death. If they are not hungry, you CANNOT force them to eat.

[unknownclown]

Thanks Mary
That was a very helpful post. I have noticed that the gerbils are a bit of.. I guess you could say slobs. They chew just to chew and sometimes not to eat. It is also good to know that they dont do good in colonies I will have to work around that since I plan on switching to gerbils to mice completely once I get enough breeders. For now Im just planning on putting my big girl on them and later I will switch the other 2. I realy dislike mice and soon they will be obsolete I am hoping since I only keep ball pythons and 2 boas. Personally I am thinkin that maybe gerbils are better just because it is their natural food. If thats what they prefer than maybe I'll have happy snakes, while my company wont be as creeped out to see gerbils instead of mice.

Jeff Im not sure if were you refering to me but I have stated over and over again that I am new to the "herp world" which is why you will see me ask the questions instead of trying to answer them, since I wouldnt know what I am talking about and should leave it up to those who do.
If you wanna know what I consider power feeding I will simply say that from what I have gathered it is feeding more than one mouse rat whatever per feeding.
As far as this is concerned...

Its all very well and good that you hear things and you think things and you have theories, but what results and experience do you have to back those claims? Because without it, its just heresay. And that's something that we have an over-abundance of in the herp world.

This is a forum where people go discuss theories. Forgive me for saying this but I didnt see anything in this thread that warranted that response.
eh oh well we all have our moments Not to mention I read the posts in a hurry so who knows if I am being off the hook forgive me, Im sorry.

[DavidBeard]

I think the best way to define "power-feeding" is any excessive feeding, like for a baby ball, more frequently than every 7 days. I feed my adult ball every 10-14 days and it is in perfect health. You have to remember than digestion is very taxing on a snake's body and over-feeding can greatly affect the overall health and lifespan of a snake. Most of the time people over-feed in order to get the snakes to grow into breeding size more quickly, so they can produce babies quicker, meaning they are greedy and don't really care about their animals.

[Jeff_Favelle]

NO unknownclown, I was not referring to you. I was referring to people who said that they heard stuff and now think it to be true without proving it on their own accord, thus having no point of reference for very very false statements.

Quotes that I was referring to:

well from what i have heard power feeding is not good and it can cut down on there total life span

gotta agree with mike there ive heard the same

Now, to answer your question. If you feed a BP a gerbil, good like EVER switching it to rats. You think its tough now, well times that by a thousand. Gerbils are damn expensive and well, just too darned cute to feed off sometimes.

Now, you said that you'd rather feed her rats, but that you heard that power feeding is bad? I don't get the connection. Rats are bigger yes, but that doesn't automatically mean you're power feeding them (if that term even exists) if they eat a rat! So I don't understand your question about rats. It won't eat rats for you right now, but your worried about power feeding by feeding it a rat? I'm confused (not unusual).

Lastly.....

If you wanna know what I consider power feeding I will simply say that from what I have gathered it is feeding more than one mouse rat whatever per feeding.

Sorry, but that's an untrue statement. I have an old stubborn male Jungle that only eats mice. He just finished his 9th mouse and he has 6 more to go. That will take him about 20 minutes. "Power feeding" has nothing to do with feeding more than one item per sitting. 15 mice will not even put a dent in this male, whereas 2 180g rats would.

So I am still waiting for people's definition of power feeding. If we're gonna make definitions of terms that don't exist, we might as well make them somewhat true, right? There are very valuable lessons about herp husbandry to be learned here. Very valuable.

[Markus Jayne]

You've certainly bring up some good points Jeff. There is way too much hear say in this society and myphs abound.

I am no expert but I do believe that it is common practice for some people to power feed their snakes with hopes of breeding them sooner rather than later. I have seen grossly obese ball pythons posted by one particular individual in the US many times claiming to feed his balls every 3 days.

I have to admit that it is very tempting to do so but I feel that if you monitor each individual snake in regards to girth, but more importantly, length, you can adjust their diet accordingly.

I think that it is very easy to make a snake obese girth wise. And regardless how much you feed them, they will only grow in length as they are genetically inclined. It's like trying to feed your son more so he becomes taller quicker so he can become a basket ball player. My belief is that by feeding him more, you will not be able to make him grow taller quicker, just wider.

I also think the opposite does however have an ill effect. I think that by under feeding you can stunt growth and if it persists could lead to a snake that will never reach its full growth potential.

Most of my 2001 females are in the 1500 gram range and my 2002's are 800 - 900 grams. I make a point of studying each individual and determine through length and girth whether or not they are being fed too much (every 7 days).

But in the long run there is one decision maker that determines what is wrong or right.....the snake itself.

Be patient...it'll pay off in the end.

I don't know if this shed's any light on your initial question. They are just my observations.

MJ

[Jeff_Favelle]

Good stuff Mark

I definitely think there is a middle groun that one must try and achieve, with each snake being slightly different and each species being drastically different. But that's what makes all this so muh fun.

[unknownclown]

OK thanks for clearin that up Jeff I can be a ditz at times
Sorry about confusing you, what I asked was if I would be better off feeding rats.
At the moment I have 2, 10 gallon tanks with breeder mice a 30 gallon tank with breeders, another 10 gallon with extra males that I havent figured out what to do with since I cant use them as feeders or have the space at the moment for breeders. I have a 10 gallon with breeder gerbils and 2 30 gallon tanks with rats one has a breeding pair in it the other a single male.
I also have breeding bunnies who just had 7 babies but those arent for me but someone who does snake rescues and cant afford 20 bucks a pop for feedings.

I would love to totaly phase out the mice I dont like them I hate touching them, they bite, and freak out company when the come over. So I plan on taking the 4 tanks with mice and replacing them with gerbils. Yes gerbils are cute but I dont mind they still have the mentality of a mouse in my eyes since they run and hide and dont like to be pet. Maybe that would change if I spent more time with them but they are feeders, I have enough guilt Also once I have them on gerbils I dont plan on switching them to rats. Since gerbils are thier natural food and thier food of choice I will keep them on it after the switch. With 5 tanks Im sure I can keep up with the demand, well Im hoping anyway, if not Ill make more room.

I dont wanna switch them to rats because my daughter gets too attached I dont have the space and personaly I also get a bit attached. They may not be as cute as gerbils but they are 10 times more friendly than the gerbils I have. I cant walk by without them rushing the cage so I can pet them.
WHY oh WHY must they like me so dang much!

As far as the power thing goes if thats not the deffinition then I guess I dont have a clue. Which Im ok with if you are since I am new Give me a some time to learn more and maybe Ill come up with another deffinition and we can compare notes again, or maybe you can sway me to see it your way who knows?

[Jeff_Favelle]

If you're going to breed gerbils for the duration of your BP's life then by all means, just feed them gerbils!! No problems there and you're BP's will gobble them up like its going out of style!

And with regards for the amount in which you feed them, well that's tough. BP's are really heavy-bodied pythons for their size, so make sure they are nice and plump. They are not a skinny snake by any means.

Good luck.

[vanderkm]

Unknown clown - just one more point in addition to what people have said about starting your ball pythons on gerbils - it may not be a problem for you, but I would caution you that personal circumstances can change and you may need to place or sell your ball pythons at some time. It is very hard to place ball pythons that only eat gerbils - very few people want to deal with that and while I know most people buy pet snakes intending to keep them, it might be something to consider.

I totally agree that killing rats is hard because they are so intelligent, but you might want to consider buying frozen rather than breeding your own prey. I bred feeders for a long time (still do keep a few) but have converted as many of my snakes as possible to frozen thawed rats and have found a reliable feeder breeder who cares about nutrition and selling a clean product (Thanks Ian - Mouseman.ca). It is just sooooooo much easier, I cannot believe it. I have more time for the snakes now that I am not dealing with breeding rodents. Just something to consider.

mary v.