Burm's size stunted due to lack of food as a baby?

jncoclub · 04-03-03, 01:10 PM

This was quoted from an earlier post about burms:
"They can grow to be 8 ft in the first yr and a half. Their life expectancy is 20+yrs, and can top out at 18-23ft, and weigh anywhere from 250lbs+." I'm not questioning the validity of the comment, but it does spark a question about my burm.

We got Clyde when she was a baby (she is my avitar pic) and we were initially told that she and her siblings all ate. We were the first to buy one out of the clutch and for the first 2-3 months she wouldn't eat. None out of the clutch did. They all got treated for various stuff but still wouldn't eat. (I posted all this when it happened last year- should anyone remember. To everyone a burm that wouldn’t eat- it was preposterous!) Long and behold, our last attempt before giving up she finally ate. I'm curious if this long length of time of not eating in her early youth may stunt her growth for the future. This all happened in June of 2002 and today she is just about 3 feet long, but not very thick. She eats like a champ now, and is definitely getting stronger, but she doesn't seem as burly as other burms her age. So I am curious, do you think my little lady can still grow to be 20 feet one day, or can you tell that since she is just reaching 3 feet now (tip of nose to tip of tail), ratio-wise, she won’t get that big?

Also, what is you opinion about feeding snakes. I know it’s better to feed smaller than larger. But should we keep offering mice till our snakes are “full,” or just keep them their regular meal which is thought to be well balanced? (Ie: dogs will eat till they get sick- snakes don’t do this, do they?)

Big Mike · 04-03-03, 01:20 PM

"Better to feed smaller than larger" ?

I was under the immpression that larger prey items were better for and/or easier to digest for the snake.

jncoclub · 04-03-03, 02:16 PM

I was told that when in doubt about food size, go smaller than larger. For example I'm not feeding my snake popcorn when I could be giving her a steak. I'm just giving her large feeder mice instead of moving her up to a small rat. According to her body girth, that just seems too big. Am I wrong?

Burmies · 04-03-03, 04:50 PM

You should be giving your snake rats or mice that are twice the thickness of their stomach.

Burmies

rattekonigin · 04-03-03, 04:58 PM

If the next prey item size is still too big, it's fine to feed 2 smaller items until she's big enough to move up a size...biologically, several smaller meals will be digested faster and easier than one large meal, because of the increased amount of surface area per volume of the smaller items...but I find that my snakes grow more when given the largest prey item that they can take...I don't see anything wrong with feeding your burm 2 smaller items, though...as long as the snake's getting the same amount of food in both cases, it doesn't really make much of a difference.

There's no reason for people to say everyone has to feed the largest prey item possible or has to feed many smaller items, it's something that should be decided on a case-by-case basis...there's no set rule.

Also, maybe it's just me, but twice the girth of the snake seems a bit big...

eyespy · 04-03-03, 05:29 PM

When I was studying for my vet tech certification I was taught that reptiles don't get stunted growth just from lack of food, there also needs to be something that affects the absorption and utilization of nutrition. Parasites are the most common reason but other infections of the GI tract that leave toxins or scarring behind can also be culprits as can birth defects.

Sometimes it's something as simple as a disruption of the natural gut flora and there have been folks who've had success from injecting Lactobacillus acidophilus into prey items to right the balance of gut flora. It doesn't always work but is simple to try.

This info was taught in the mid-80s and a lot has been learned about herp medicine so I don't know if that is still thought to be the case or not. As always, don't trust any advice you get through the net without verifying it with your vet and other trusted herp folks.

Oh, and twice the girth seems very big in the case where a snake may not be making best use of nutrients. Why challenge a digestive system that may not be running full steam ahead?

BurmBaroness · 04-03-03, 07:07 PM

I have a burm here who is 9 mos old here. She had an RI when I got her at 8 weeks, which recurred 3 times, so she went long periods of not eating. She is now a whole 4ft long.........lol. And starting to get chubby, now that she has been eating on a regular basis. She has been eating small rats since she was 3ft, and seems to have no problem with them. As to whether it will stunt her growth? I don't know for sure, but it may be that it will just take her a little longer to reach her genetically determined size.

Linds · 04-03-03, 10:12 PM

Mice seem awful small to be feeding a 3' burm, considering some babies are taking adult mcie right out of the egg...

Quote:

Originally posted by BurmBaroness
I don't know for sure, but it may be that it will just take her a little longer to reach her genetically determined size.

I agree in that she most likely will reach her full size, just at a slower pace than she would've had she been healthy and feeding all along. Snakes grow pretty much their whole lives, albeit very slowly in the latter years. The larger pythons are an excellent example of this, as their continued growth is more noticable.

Quote:

Originally posted by Burmies
You should be giving your snake rats or mice that are twice the thickness of their stomach.

Burmies

General rule is to feed something roughly the same size as the largest part of the snakes girth. A meal twice the size will take longer to digest, and can be very stressful on the snakes system, and in some cases lead to regurgitation.

jncoclub · 04-04-03, 03:39 PM

She is almost 3 feet long, and she measures almost 3 inches around her thickest part. Is this a good ratio? To me I was under the impression that she is thiner than she should be. Is there a rule of thumb for this?

Blackwidow69 · 04-04-03, 04:23 PM

I would be stepping it up to small rats.. the burm i use to have when it was that size was eatting small to medium rats...

garethuk1 · 04-19-03, 06:33 AM

i had a baby burm 4 months ago and the owner did not feed her and she was only 2 foot 2 and not she 5 and a half foot and looking good she grows about 8 inches a month

ReptiZone · 04-21-03, 03:20 AM

when it comes to snakes like burms you would be amased at what they can eat with rather good resaults. Now this dose not mean start power feeding but if it so hapends that they prey item is a bit biger every once and a while to give them a good filling of food it is not a bad thing you know verry it 2-3 mice of average perportion a week, and some where in a month give a nice size rat that is just a bit biger then the stomach it wont hurt and the snake gets a balence diet just like in the wild when they strike and get lucky and get a biger meal then usual now don't go saying that I want you to power feed just give a treat every once and a while even every 2 monts that is how when you are in a binde no rats any where no mice at least you know that your burm can take a large hamster, gerbile and maby verry small baby guiny pigs hey i payed 30$ just to see if it would work and man it was the best envestment i ever made the burm was full for almost 3 weeks and put on at leas 1 1/2 feet. it got me out of a binde and the snake grew a bit.