Heat for bioactive tank & misc.

[MnGuy]

Here's the situation: I have two female garter snakes living in a 40-breeder on aspen bedding. The tank is heated with a basking light during the day, and retains proper low temperatures at night with no heating mechanism. (They also have a UVB bulb during the day.)

Previously they were kept on newspaper and I used a heating bad set low at night during the winters because I live in Minnesota. With the paper being so thin, the pad worked great.

Questions:

1/ I want to convert this to a bioactive tank, but how do I heat the tank over night during the winter? Is sticking the heating pad to side of the tank an option? Or, should I create a very shallow dirt area that allows them closer access to the heating pad? I assume the usually recommended depth of dirt will prevent any heat from penetrating to the surface.

2/ I've considered using a ceramic heat emitter at night, but I don't know that there's enough surface area on my screen lid to accommodate an additional light (the basking light is attached using one of those stands and the UVB strip light takes up some space), and I already own two heating pads so that would save money. Thoughts?

3/ Unrelated, but what do you guys do to protect the cords on your rheostat and digital thermometers from getting damaged by the tank hood? I have a Zilla tank with that sliding screen top, and although I arrange the cords to enter through the small built-in holes, I've noticed serious damage to one rheostat cord (had to replace it because the wires became exposed) and see some wear and tear on the thermometer cord.

Is there anything I can do to save my cords?


Thank you.

[PanUzasny]

I have my kingsnake in a bioactive tank with a drainage layer with a similar set up to yours (light to provide heat during the day with normal low temperatures at night) but I haven't had to worry about the winter yet.

1/ Just wanted to mention that prior to going bioactive I was using a heating pad. However, I switched to the light because I'd heard that water coming into contact with the hot glass surface could potentially crack the glass of my tank. Now, I don't have that much water in my setup and it probably wouldn't be an issue, but I didn't want to risk it. I have heard that the heating pad on the side could be a good option for raising the ambient temperature inside.

2/ Any reason not to just replace the basking light with a ceramic heat emitter? Should solve the space problem.

[MnGuy]

Originally Posted by PanUzasny

I have my kingsnake in a bioactive tank with a drainage layer with a similar set up to yours (light to provide heat during the day with normal low temperatures at night) but I haven't had to worry about the winter yet.

1/ Just wanted to mention that prior to going bioactive I was using a heating pad. However, I switched to the light because I'd heard that water coming into contact with the hot glass surface could potentially crack the glass of my tank. Now, I don't have that much water in my setup and it probably wouldn't be an issue, but I didn't want to risk it. I have heard that the heating pad on the side could be a good option for raising the ambient temperature inside.

2/ Any reason not to just replace the basking light with a ceramic heat emitter? Should solve the space problem.

Thank you for the great feedback. Good to know about the water and possible cracking glass.

I hadn't considered replacing the basking light with a ceramic heat emitter because the basking light also provides UVA while the fluorescent light provides UVB, and I wanted to offer both to the garters. And also because I like my daytime temperatures in the high 80s and my nighttime temperatures in the low 70s.

As far as I know, no temperature controller/rheostat on the market allows for two settings on one device. I'd need two different rheostats, correct?

[craigafrechette]

Hello, two things jumped out to me...

1) heat mats or Under Tank Heaters (UTH) are so called because they're designed to go UNDER the tank to provide a hot spot. They are not designed to raise ambient temps. So putting one on the side isn't a great idea. You'll just end up with a warm wall they can't really utilize.

2) there are plenty of THERMOSTATS that are built to support two heat sources. Rheostats are ok, but a thermostat is the proper tool. Much more accurate and reliable. As well as safer and less likely to start a house fire.

Oh, and last thing...don't take shortcuts when it comes to animals. Just because you have a spare UTH sitting around and it's cheaper doesn't make it right for the animal.

[PanUzasny]

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Hello, two things jumped out to me...

1) heat mats or Under Tank Heaters (UTH) are so called because they're designed to go UNDER the tank to provide a hot spot. They are not designed to raise ambient temps. So putting one on the side isn't a great idea. You'll just end up with a warm wall they can't really utilize.

Craig, I know that the manufacturer's instructions on my UTH specifically stated that it can be placed on the side of the tank. Is it simply that it's not very efficient that you don't recommend it? For garters, I wouldn't imagine you need a lot of additional heat like a different species might require.

Would a side-mounted UTH be beneficial for a different animal setup?

FYI, I read some good points about the cons of side-mounted UTHs as well as someone who says they have been using it successfully with a corn snake at this link:

https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums...?f=28&t=162002

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by PanUzasny

Craig, I know that the manufacturer's instructions on my UTH specifically stated that it can be placed on the side of the tank. Is it simply that it's not very efficient that you don't recommend it? For garters, I wouldn't imagine you need a lot of additional heat like a different species might require.

Would a side-mounted UTH be beneficial for a different animal setup?

FYI, I read some good points about the cons of side-mounted UTHs as well as someone who says they have been using it successfully with a corn snake at this link:

https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums...?f=28&t=162002

I guess there may be some species that benefit from a side mounted UTH, but I don't know of any.

And the same product that says it can be side mounted doesn't mention that their product should only be used with a thermostat. They don't mention that their product can spike to dangerous temps that can be fatal to the animals.

[PanUzasny]

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I guess there may be some species that benefit from a side mounted UTH, but I don't know of any.

And the same product that says it can be side mounted doesn't mention that their product should only be used with a thermostat. They don't mention that their product can spike to dangerous temps that can be fatal to the animals.

Good points, thanks!

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by PanUzasny

Good points, thanks!

Happy to share my thoughts and experience. That being said, I definitely don't know everything, hahaha. I could certainly be mistaken, but in my years in this hobby I've never known an experienced keeper who used a side mounted UTH with any success.

[MnGuy]

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Hello, two things jumped out to me...

1) heat mats or Under Tank Heaters (UTH) are so called because they're designed to go UNDER the tank to provide a hot spot. They are not designed to raise ambient temps. So putting one on the side isn't a great idea. You'll just end up with a warm wall they can't really utilize.

2) there are plenty of THERMOSTATS that are built to support two heat sources. Rheostats are ok, but a thermostat is the proper tool. Much more accurate and reliable. As well as safer and less likely to start a house fire.

Oh, and last thing...don't take shortcuts when it comes to animals. Just because you have a spare UTH sitting around and it's cheaper doesn't make it right for the animal.

Thanks for the info. Which multiple-in-one thermometer do you recommend? I’ll have to order it online because I don’t think I’ve seen one for sale at local stores or at local reptile shows. (I live in a major metro area.) I currently use the Zilla thermometer. I guess I’m incorrectly using thermometer/rheostat interchangeably.

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by MnGuy

Thanks for the info. Which multiple-in-one thermometer do you recommend? I’ll have to order it online because I don’t think I’ve seen one for sale at local stores or at local reptile shows. (I live in a major metro area.) I currently use the Zilla thermometer. I guess I’m incorrectly using thermometer/rheostat interchangeably.

Herpstat and Spyder Robotics are the two "best in the game" but they're a bit pricey.

I have a handful of JumpStart thermostats. They are only singles though. I have each heat source on a separate one they're around $30 each. I've been using them for years. I do plan to upgrade to Herpstat at some point though.

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by MnGuy

Here's the situation: I have two female garter snakes living in a 40-breeder on aspen bedding. The tank is heated with a basking light during the day, and retains proper low temperatures at night with no heating mechanism. (They also have a UVB bulb during the day.)

Previously they were kept on newspaper and I used a heating bad set low at night during the winters because I live in Minnesota. With the paper being so thin, the pad worked great.

Questions:

1/ I want to convert this to a bioactive tank, but how do I heat the tank over night during the winter? Is sticking the heating pad to side of the tank an option? Or, should I create a very shallow dirt area that allows them closer access to the heating pad? I assume the usually recommended depth of dirt will prevent any heat from penetrating to the surface.

2/ I've considered using a ceramic heat emitter at night, but I don't know that there's enough surface area on my screen lid to accommodate an additional light (the basking light is attached using one of those stands and the UVB strip light takes up some space), and I already own two heating pads so that would save money. Thoughts?

3/ Unrelated, but what do you guys do to protect the cords on your rheostat and digital thermometers from getting damaged by the tank hood? I have a Zilla tank with that sliding screen top, and although I arrange the cords to enter through the small built-in holes, I've noticed serious damage to one rheostat cord (had to replace it because the wires became exposed) and see some wear and tear on the thermometer cord.

Is there anything I can do to save my cords?


Thank you.

Honestly, your best bet would be to use a Radiant Heat Panel (RHP). They're a bit more pricey, but worth every penny.

Also, I noticed you mentioned the depth of substrate. It's important to measure the actual surface temp, not the substrate temp. Snakes can and will burrow, push substrate aside, etc...and lay on the actual surface floor of the enclosure.
Most of my snakes push all of their substrate out of their hides within days of me changing out and adding new substrate.

[Scubadiver59]

Mine are just the opposite...they seem to drag more in unless I have the substrate really thin. My Kings are notoriously famous for burrowing and then pushing more substrate up and into their hides so I have to clear them out from time to time.

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Honestly, your best bet would be to use a Radiant Heat Panel (RHP). They're a bit more pricey, but worth every penny.

Also, I noticed you mentioned the depth of substrate. It's important to measure the actual surface temp, not the substrate temp. Snakes can and will burrow, push substrate aside, etc...and lay on the actual surface floor of the enclosure.
Most of my snakes push all of their substrate out of their hides within days of me changing out and adding new substrate.

[craigafrechette]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Mine are just the opposite...they seem to drag more in unless I have the substrate really thin. My Kings are notoriously famous for burrowing and then pushing more substrate up and into their hides so I have to clear them out from time to time.

My Hognose does the same, but he's the only snake I've ever kept that does that.
...and Hogs don't typically use hides from what I understand. I just left in in there to add clutter and decor, but it turns out he uses it fairly regularly.

[jamesp]

I think ceramic should do the job nicely.