Which snake type would be happy in such an enclosure?

Pedroo · 06-18-17, 01:45 PM

I have an enclosure that is in inch: 30 long, 20 deep, 40 high. Which snake type would be happy in such an enclosure? other than ball python, corn snake or green tree python?

Pedroo · 06-19-17, 02:04 AM

No answer is also is an answer. Any suggestion would have been appreciated. I was trying to know if the space of this enclosure is enough for an adult snake other than those that i have mentioned.

Roman · 06-19-17, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroo

No answer is also is an answer. Any suggestion would have been appreciated. I was trying to know if the space of this enclosure is enough for an adult snake other than those that i have mentioned.

What did you expect? You asked an unspecific question, if you had specified your preferences (Colubrid, Boa, Python) you might have gotten your answer a little earlier.

As Tsubaki already told you, the dimensions of your enclosure are too small for most medium sized Colubrids and more or less all Boas or Pythons. Smaller Colubrids which might fit into the enclosure are food specialists more often than not, eating frogs or lizards as their main prey and are (nearly) impossible to keep.

The enclosure is probably big enough for a male Green Bush Snake (Gonyosoma prasinum), but it might be difficult to get them to eat, so depending on your experience this might not be a suitable snake for you.

A small male ball python would fit into it and you are right, they do like to climb, I saw two of them at the very top of their enclosure at the Reptilium Landau (a reptile zoo in Germany) a few years ago. But as I already told you in your previous post about enclosure size for Boas (which was lost after the restore of the forum) you have to keep the guidelines for minimum enclosure size in mind. Depending on which species you (will) keep, you might get into close contact with the administration responsible for registering protected species (this would be the "Untere Naturschutzbehoerde" here in Hessen or the equivalent in the state you live in). They might call on you if you keep any reptiles you have to register (Cites protected or European reptiles).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroo

And Sanzinia Madagascariensis and Coelognathus radiata are not available here in Germany.

Did you even bother to search for them? If you search for Sanzinia madagascariensis here

--> Terraristik Anzeigen - Kleinanzeigen fÃ¼r Terrarianer mit Reptilien, Insekten, Spinnen...

you will currently find 4 advertisements with a total of 15 snakes, all were registered in June.

There is also an ad for Coelognathus radiata from April and this shop from France has some for sale as well.

https://www.lftshop.com/autres-colubrides,fr,3,30.cfm

They will not ship to Germany, but they attend the Hamm Expo in September, so you could contact them before and they will bring the snakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Taiwanese Beauty Snake would be the species going into that enclosure if I had it.

Seriously? You would keep a snake which might grow to 240 cm (8 ft.) in an enclosure of 75 x 50 x 100 cm (2,5 x 2 x 3 ft)? Have you ever seen an adult Beauty Snake in action? These guys are really active (if you provide them the necessary room to be active in). According to the guidelines I mentioned above a suitable enclosure size for Orthriophis taeniurus friesei would be 1,0 x 0,5 x 1,0 of total body length, so probably something like 200 x 100 x 200 cm (7 x 3 x 7 ft).

Roman

Pedroo · 06-25-17, 11:47 PM

[QUOTE= Seriously? You would keep a snake which might grow to 240 cm (8 ft.) in an enclosure of 75 x 50 x 100 cm (2,5 x 2 x 3 ft)?
Roman[/QUOTE]

Actually the exact enclosure size is as follows in inch: 31 long, 21 deep, 40 high
In cm: 80 long, 55 deep, 100 high. Sorry for being imprecise
a 4 feet (48 inch) long adult male ball python is living now in it an it fits him perfectly. He is using every bit of the height.

dannybgoode · 06-25-17, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroo

Actually the exact enclosure size is as follows in inch: 31 long, 21 deep, 40 high
In cm: 80 long, 55 deep, 100 high. Sorry for being imprecise
a 4 feet (48 inch) long adult male ball python is living now in it an it fits him perfectly. He is using every bit of the height.

I think the point still remains that it's not big enough for a large snake such as a beauty.

It does not surprise me the ball is using all the height - they will climb if given the opportunity, especially the males.

fedeCF · 06-19-17, 02:37 AM

I will go with an arboreal species. Maybe an Amazon tree boa could fit in it even as an adult.

**Tsubaki** · 06-19-17, 03:38 AM

Coelognathus radiata would do fine in one of those, maybe a small Sanzinia Madagascariensis male.. A lot of arboreal type snakes that would use the high need more depth and width. Like the Rhynchophis boulengeri. All I can think of right now!

sattva · 06-19-17, 07:15 AM

Maybe one of the smaller breed of Carpets... I have a 7 year old, 5'+ foot Jungle, who thinks he's a green tree python... I love my guy's personality, it's so different then all my other guys... He's in a 40 gal tank right now and it's a bit small for him I think... But using the size formula, that the size of the snake, does not exceed the length plus the width of the inclosure, he is barely over... I read somewhere, that they only need 6 inches off the ground to fulfill their arboreal needs, but someday I'd like to get him a bigger cage...

Pedroo · 06-19-17, 08:52 AM

Thanks everybody for your valuable suggestions. It would be small for an adult Amazon tree boa. And Sanzinia Madagascariensis and Coelognathus radiata are not available here in Germany. And if i wanted to have a carpet i won,t go for one of the smaller breed. I think the three choices that i have mentioned myself are the ones that i should choose from. And it will be a ball python.

sattva · 06-19-17, 09:35 AM

You can't go wrong with a ball python... When I first got into the hobby I didn't ever want to get a ball python... I thought their heads were way out of proportion to their bodys... And they curled up in a ball when you hold them; I thought how boring...{Boy was I wrong} I really wanted a blue eye white snake really, really bad and the leucistic balls were the least expensive out there... To date my Crystal is the most expensive snake I have in my collection ... I love her to death... I pick up her boyfriend {Leon} for a mear $75.oo in case I lose my mind and want to start breeding her for leucistic babys... I havn't done all the research on breeding as yet to see if I want to do it... I have only been in the hobby for a little over a year now and I am learning as fast as I can... I am 66 and feel like a kid again... I'm having way too much fun...

**EL Ziggy** · 06-19-17, 09:56 AM

I think an adult BP would prefer more floor space and less vertical space but it might work. Of the 3 choices you mentioned a GTP would probably fit best in that enclosure. Best wishes with whatever you choose.

Pedroo · 06-19-17, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL Ziggy

I think an adult BP would prefer more floor space and less vertical space but it might work. Of the 3 choices you mentioned a GTP would probably fit best in that enclosure. Best wishes with whatever you choose.

Thank you.. You have mentioned 2 points. I have no experience with GTP, so i will agree with you.
And regarding the second point about ball python climbing abilities, I found this article to be very interesting 'cut and paste '

"As regards climbing, "exploring" and Royal Python habitat use... people seem to have the mistaken assumption that these snakes are nocturnal and fossorial. Neither is entirely true. This idea has been bandied about for a few decades because the snakes aestivate in burrows during the hottest parts of the year, and this is when they are easiest for the trappers to locate. This does not mean they spend their whole lives underground, nor does it mean they are "ambush predators" that sit and wait most of their lives - on the contrary they are surprisingly active "search hunters" that happen to do most of their hunting at night and, in the case of adult females, hunt in burrows for rodents.

Males and smaller animals exhibit a completely different mode of hunting - they climb trees and target a completely different source of food. We know this from a variety of sources:

"Survey of the status and management of the Royal Python (Python regius) in Ghana" lists pythons being found in trees, although points out that the species is very adaptable to the point of being semi-invasive and responds well to anthropogenic disturbance. It also mentions a specimen being found up a tree.

"Food resource partitioning of a community of snakes in a swamp rainforest of south-eastern Nigeria" lists woodpeckers and warblers (both consummately arboreal species that do not spend much if any time on the ground) as among the most numerous prey retrieved from Royal Python stomach (Cisticola warblers were the single prey genus that had the highest number found in Royal Pythons during the survey).

"Why do males and females of Python regius differ in parasite load" points out that males (which are more arboreal) carry different and much higher parasite loads than females, possibly as a result of the differences in habitat use.

"Jebels By Moonlight" lists a first hand observation of a Royal Python hunting in a tree in Sudan.

"Sexual size dimorphism and natural history traits are correlated with intersexual dietary divergence in royal pythons (python regius) from the rainforests of southeastern Nigeria" - half of the male pythons encountered over a two year period were found on trees. The diet of male pythons under a certain size had a huge percentage of birds and arboreal mammals.

"Species trade and conservation: Snake trade and conservation management (Serpentes.spp.)
An assessment of the impact of the pet trade on five CITES-Appendix II case studies" lists the species as being both terrestrial and tree-dwelling animals.

The fact is Royal Pythons are extraordinarily adaptive snakes that can tolerate a wide variety of habitats and are not negatively affected by anthropogenic change to the same extent as many other reptiles are. They can be terrestrial AND semi-arboreal depending on the habitats they inhabit, although according to studies by authors such as Luca Luiselli they reach their highest population densities in forested areas as opposed to grassland.

It is worth noting that males especially seem to have adapted to fit a different niche to the larger females to the point that diet composition is almost totally different in several studies, and includes a significant percentage of birds and arboreal mammals that are most likely being stalked and captured in trees at night. They are also picking up a completely different parasite load because of this!"

Pedroo · 08-22-17, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL Ziggy

Of the 3 choices you mentioned a GTP would probably fit best in that enclosure. Best wishes with whatever you choose.

You were absolutely right. I just added a 2 years old male GTP to my collection and he fits excellent in that enclosure. I moved my ball python to another enclosure

**EL Ziggy** · 08-22-17, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroo

You were absolutely right. I just added a 2 years old male GTP to my collection and he fits excellent in that enclosure. I moved my ball python to another enclosure

That's awesome Pedroo. I hope you'll share pics of the new addition soon.

Roman · 08-22-17, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroo

You were absolutely right. I just added a 2 years old male GTP to my collection and he fits excellent in that enclosure. I moved my ball python to another enclosure

Nice addition, Pedroo.

I don’t want to be a pain in the neck, but your enclosure is not sufficient for an adult Morelia viridis. I suppose you are aware that you have to register your snake at the Untere Naturschutzbehoerde (our administration responsible for supervising nature conservation, they are also responsible for registering all protected animals being kept) because it is listed in Cites An. B (WA II). Depending where you live in Germany, your administration might pay you a visit after some time (here in Hessen where I live the “critical threshold” are two protected snakes, they don’t bother if you only keep one (at least for now, this might change)).

If they visit you, they will notice the size of your enclosure and will compare it to the guidelines for minimum enclosure size (“Mindestanforderungen an die Haltung von Reptilien”). For Morelia viridis the minimum enclosure size is 0,75 x 0,5 x 1,5 of total body length, so if your male is on the small side and only 150 cm long you would need an enclosure of 110 x 75 x 220 cm (length x width x height).

I know this sounds exaggerated, but I know somebody who had kept several breeding pairs of GTP in enclosures of a similar size like yours for years until he got a visit. As a result he got an official letter of reprimand, ordering him to change the settings of his enclosures to an appropriate size. He had to drastically downsize his collection in order to meet the requirements and he couldn’t provide enough large enclosures due to the size of his home. In order to provide all of his snakes with “proper” housing he would have needed another home just for them.

So in order to avoid any “official” problems provide your snake with an enclosure according to the guidelines.

Roman