T8 for Dumeril Boa UTH or RHP

rebelluver · 04-16-17, 08:50 PM

Man have I read a ton about this choice and I am no closer to a decision. I currently just use a 40 gallon aquarium with an UTH and CME, both on on/off thermostats. Since I am going to switch to a proper boa tank (the AP T8), I would love to go to a single heating method. I know AP uses the flexwatt but I have heard it won't raise ambients. Switching to a 40 watt rhp sounds pretty good, but my issue is she loves hiding in her repti shelter. https://www.lllreptile.com/products/...-repti-shelter

Could the rhp heat the inside of that? It currently sits on a zoo med heat pad and it keeps it up to 88 in the cave. It is inconsistent because of the zoomed pad. It can be 88 on one side and 82 in the other (the floor temp). If I can set an rhp over that cave opening and it will heat the inside of her cave that would be perfect. I have heard mixed reviews on whether that will happen though.

I would love to pick one or the other but can't be sure it will work with the cave. She loves it so much, I don't want to take it away.

I have read some heated debates on here about this same topic so I don't want to fire that back up. I need to make a decision before I order the T8 so I can have them build it the way I want.

I guess I should mention that the room temps will be about 77-79 in the summer, and 70-74 in the winter and it will sit on a stand about 1.5 feet off the floor.

dannybgoode · 04-17-17, 03:26 AM

For a heavy bodied snake like a Dumeril then imo some form of radiant heat source is what's required so an rhp for sure.

40W sounds on the low side-a T8 is quite big no? I'd say 150w. If you place the cave under the rhp it'll still get warm inside it. You should provide a cave in the cool end as well so the snake has options.

rebelluver · 04-17-17, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

For a heavy bodied snake like a Dumeril then imo some form of radiant heat source is what's required so an rhp for sure.

40W sounds on the low side-a T8 is quite big no? I'd say 150w. If you place the cave under the rhp it'll still get warm inside it. You should provide a cave in the cool end as well so the snake has options.

Because the T8 is only 12 inches tall they say it only takes the 40 watt. I just sent an email to both Reptile Basics and Pro Products to make sure, but I have heard that 40 will do it for my room temps from a few places. I will make sure and get what they suggest.

There is a hole in the top of the cave but she always makes sure to hide as far away from the opening as she can so it needs to heat the entire thing.

She has a few options for hides but she is either in the cave or buried in tbe Aspen on the cool side 95% of the time.

The more I read the more I like the idea of the RHP. It surprises me this doesn't come up more often since needing a hide is so important. I read a couple of times that it will only heat the top of the cave so, if that is a problem then why aren't more people having it?

dannybgoode · 04-17-17, 04:22 AM

Didn't realise a T8 was only 12" high-40W may suffice in that case. I'd still over spec in any event and use a thermostat so the heater isn't running at near full power all the time-I'd rather have a bit of headroom and have the heater ticking over.

As rhp's raise the ambient temperature quite effectively the inside of the cave will warm nicely...

GyGbeetle · 04-17-17, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Didn't realise a T8 was only 12" high-40W may suffice in that case. I'd still over spec in any event and use a thermostat so the heater isn't running at near full power all the time-I'd rather have a bit of headroom and have the heater ticking over.

As rhp's raise the ambient temperature quite effectively the inside of the cave will warm nicely...

Just got an email from Reptile Basics, asking about ambient temps, and this was their response:

Hi,
The rule of thumb for selecting the proper size is similar to that of choosing a heating pad or heat tape. You should cover ¼ to 1/3 of one end of the cage. The difference is that an RHP has an “effective range” of about 18”. This means that taller enclosures for animals that do not climb in a tall enclosure, you may need to lower the mounting height by installing a shelf and mounting the panel on the bottom of the shelf.
RHP’s create a great basking area, but do not do raise the ambient temperature a great deal.* This means to regulate the panel temperature, the thermostat probe must be mounted directly below the panel at a distance of about 3”.
(*A piece of slate or similar material directly below the panel can be warmed and in turn warm the enclosure somewhat.)

dannybgoode · 04-17-17, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GyGbeetle

Just got an email from Reptile Basics, asking about ambient temps, and this was their response:

Hi,
The rule of thumb for selecting the proper size is similar to that of choosing a heating pad or heat tape. You should cover ¼ to 1/3 of one end of the cage. The difference is that an RHP has an “effective range” of about 18”. This means that taller enclosures for animals that do not climb in a tall enclosure, you may need to lower the mounting height by installing a shelf and mounting the panel on the bottom of the shelf.
RHP’s create a great basking area, but do not do raise the ambient temperature a great deal.* This means to regulate the panel temperature, the thermostat probe must be mounted directly below the panel at a distance of about 3”.
(*A piece of slate or similar material directly below the panel can be warmed and in turn warm the enclosure somewhat.)

I understand AP are a respected manufacturer but I absolutely disagree with what they say about rhp's unless they mean some thing completely different to what I understand by rhp.

An rhp is just another form of che essentially and they are very effective at raising ambient temperature as they heat the ground and this radiates the heat back up to the air.

I also disagree with their probe placement but as I say what we call an rhp in the UK may be different.

dannybgoode · 04-17-17, 10:25 AM

This is what I'd call an rhp

https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/mic...AlEBoCKGrw_wcB

GyGbeetle · 04-17-17, 10:33 AM

This is what I've seen typically called an RHP here in the states:

Reptile Basics 120 Watt Radiant Heat Panel - Reptile Basics Inc

rebelluver · 04-17-17, 12:17 PM

I haven't heard back from Rebtile Basics yet but I did hear from Bob at Pro Products. He says the 65 watt would be the best for the T8 with my room temps. He also said the RHP would have no trouble heating the inside of that cave.

As far as raising the ambient temp... I have read so much on the subject and as far as I can tell the RHP will raise the ambient temp more than an UTH despite some people swearing that it will not. It heats the objects on the ground which in turn heat the air. That is also how a UTH works but it is only heating the substrate, where a RHP is heating anything above ground.

I will probably end up with the Pro Heat even though they are more expensive. I like that they are certified for saftey and that they use less power. The 65 watt is cheaper than I thought it would be. I kept hearing people say "but the price" so I expected silliness, not just a $20- $30 increase.

trailblazer295 · 04-17-17, 12:43 PM

I use rhps in my pvc cages 90f hot side and around 80f cold in a room 70-72f. A uth is also mounted on a 11"tall pvc with no increase in cold side. An IR source heat your bedding and other decor objects which in turn heat the air.

rebelluver · 04-17-17, 04:38 PM

I just heard back from Ali at AP and she confirmed what I expected. The UTH will not raise ambient temps and should only be used alone if you are comfortable with the ambient temps in the room matching the cage.

She recommended a RHP said they will install one for free if I have it sent to them and they usually do the ones from Pro Products.

The customer service from those places is legendary and I see why.

trailblazer295 · 04-17-17, 04:46 PM

I'm a big fan of the pro products RHPs I have 3 running in my cages.

rebelluver · 04-17-17, 04:51 PM

I am not sure what the heater Danny posted is, I have never seen one before. The RHP's I am referring to are like the one beetle posted. That is the Reptile Basics version. It is also a very popular RHP and a little cheaper.

trailblazer295 · 04-17-17, 05:25 PM

I've never seen the ones danny posted reptile basics and pro products panels are more or less the same visually. The main difference is engineering but the operation is the same. The nice thing is the surface doesn't get hot enough to burn your snake should they brush it.

dannybgoode · 04-17-17, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

I've never seen the ones danny posted reptile basics and pro products panels are more or less the same visually. The main difference is engineering but the operation is the same. The nice thing is the surface doesn't get hot enough to burn your snake should they brush it.

Microclimate is a uk manufacturer who don't seem to have a US distributor. Which is a shame as their Evo and Evo Pro thermostats are brilliant. We have another manufacturer, Habistat, whose panel looks more like the US ones.