Wild Scaleless

[dawsona1]

I caught this on Wednesday last week. It was 90 degrees out in a hard wood forest in East Tennessee. Can anyone tell help with identification?

[dawsona1]

Originally Posted by dawsona1

I caught this on Wednesday last week. It was 90 degrees out in a hard wood forest in East Tennessee. Can anyone tell help with identification?

Here are more images of the scaleless snake i caught.

[Bandit]

The head looks like a garter. I'll look into TN snakes more in a little bit. And it had no scales?

It certainly is beautiful and an incredible find.

[macandchz]

i thought scaleless snakes had to be bred. very interesting!

[dawsona1]

It only had scales on it's belly, head, and on the tip of the tail. I released it after I took the pictures. If you zoom in on the head pictures you can see the skin stretching where there should be scales. It felt like soft skin when rubbed in both directions.

[Bandit]

That's insane. Amazing find. You should contact your state herpetologist and let them know, I'm sure that's something they'd be interested in. And again, looks like a garter to me, but I'm not overly familiar with the snakes in your area. It's certainly a crazy mutation.

[Albert Clark]

I think it may be a t.s.sirtalis intergrade with the bizarre and aberrant patterning. Eastern garter snake intergrade.

[dawsona1]

The state herpetologist society is the first group that got the pictures and no reply yet. I think they are freaking out, lol.

[Bandit]

I'm sure they were. I'm usually not tempted to take animals from the wild, but I'd certainly be thinking about it if I would've come across that one lol.

[FWK]

Scaleless Eastern Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis). Incredible find. If you find it again please hang onto it, it will not last long in the wild. Any Garter enthusiast would love to have it.

[RAD House]

I saw this on Facebook and the snake was found in a state where it is illegal to keep wild caught animals. Much respect to the op for respecting conservation above their own wants.

[FWK]

Mmm, Tennessee requires permits to possess native Class II animals. "Nonpoisonous" snakes are included under Class II. Interesting that it is stated in the law "poisonous reptiles" are considered Class I animals. There is no mention of venomous reptiles. Tennessee is not a friendly state to wildlife enthusiasts.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/t...e_70_4_403.pdf

http://share.tn.gov/sos/rules/1660/1...8.20151022.pdf

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

I saw this on Facebook and the snake was found in a state where it is illegal to keep wild caught animals. Much respect to the op for respecting conservation above their own wants.

Keeping or releasing this animal has nothing to do with conservation. This animal will not live long in the wild, there are reasons snakes have scales and this snake is at an extreme disadvantage without them. Nature will not be kind to this animal. Unfortunately, having been found in a state that applies the precautionary principle to its wildlife laws, the only legal option is to leave it be.

[RAD House]

Originally Posted by FWK

Mmm, Tennessee requires permits to possess native Class II animals. "Nonpoisonous" snakes are included under Class II. Interesting that it is stated in the law "poisonous reptiles" are considered Class I animals. There is no mention of venomous reptiles. Tennessee is not a friendly state to wildlife enthusiasts.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/t...e_70_4_403.pdf

http://share.tn.gov/sos/rules/1660/1...8.20151022.pdf



Keeping or releasing this animal has nothing to do with conservation. This animal will not live long in the wild, there are reasons snakes have scales and this snake is at an extreme disadvantage without them. Nature will not be kind to this animal. Unfortunately, having been found in a state that applies the precautionary principle to its wildlife laws, the only legal option is to leave it be.

Do we really need to have a discussion on the pressure collecting wild specimens can have on a population? If so feel free to pm me as it is off topic. Also it is your opinion that the snake will not survive.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Do we really need to have a discussion on the pressure collecting wild specimens can have on a population? If so feel free to pm me as it is off topic. Also it is your opinion that the snake will not survive.

Collecting individual specimens, particularly juveniles, has zero impact on local populations. Nature has built in measures to deal with such losses. It's no different than had the animal been preyed on. Collecting in large numbers in an isolated area, say, for example, collecting everything in a Rattlesnake hibernaculum, is a little different, certainly not what we are talking about here. Every snake you own comes from field collected stock. A few generations removed perhaps, but field collected nonetheless. The building you live in and the roads that you drive on have done more damage to wildlife populations of all kinds than you could in a lifetime of collecting. You will do far more good cultivating and protecting habitat than attempting to tear down the reptile hobby from within.

If scaleless snakes could survive in the wild there would be pockets of them occurring in many species, in many places. It's like albinism, or any other genetic mutation that is disadvantageous. These things are rare in the wild because they put the animal at higher risk of predation, injury, disease, or impairs their ability to preform basic necessary functions such as feeding or shedding. For example, albino Rat Snakes are extremely rare in the wild, even though the gene in known to be carried by a number of populations across the US. These animals spend a lot time in trees or other conspicuous locations, and rely heavily on their camouflage to avoid predation. Albinism makes them easy to spot, and they are quickly picked off by birds or other predators. Rough Earth Snakes, conversely, spend their entire lives underground, where camouflage means nothing. As a result there are at least a couple places in Texas alone where albino Rough Earths are found with some regularity. Similarly, there is a known population of hypo Ringnecks in Georgia.

[eminart]

Originally Posted by FWK

Collecting individual specimens, particularly juveniles, has zero impact on local populations. Nature has built in measures to deal with such losses. It's no different than had the animal been preyed on. Collecting in large numbers in an isolated area, say, for example, collecting everything in a Rattlesnake hibernaculum, is a little different, certainly not what we are talking about here. Every snake you own comes from field collected stock. A few generations removed perhaps, but field collected nonetheless. The building you live in and the roads that you drive on have done more damage to wildlife populations of all kinds than you could in a lifetime of collecting. You will do far more good cultivating and protecting habitat than attempting to tear down the reptile hobby from within.

If scaleless snakes could survive in the wild there would be pockets of them occurring in many species, in many places. It's like albinism, or any other genetic mutation that is disadvantageous. These things are rare in the wild because they put the animal at higher risk of predation, injury, disease, or impairs their ability to preform basic necessary functions such as feeding or shedding. For example, albino Rat Snakes are extremely rare in the wild, even though the gene in known to be carried by a number of populations across the US. These animals spend a lot time in trees or other conspicuous locations, and rely heavily on their camouflage to avoid predation. Albinism makes them easy to spot, and they are quickly picked off by birds or other predators. Rough Earth Snakes, conversely, spend their entire lives underground, where camouflage means nothing. As a result there are at least a couple places in Texas alone where albino Rough Earths are found with some regularity. Similarly, there is a known population of hypo Ringnecks in Georgia.

I love it when someone understands science and conservation.